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#980 - 01/31/04 06:00 PM Re: Death Rituals : Asokaram.....?? ***** [Re: Dove]
asokaram Offline
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Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 261
Loc: Denmark
Very understandable, Dove, and a good question or introspective observation.

I think anyone in good health can quite easily say they aren’t afraid of death, until a doctor says, “Sorry, my good friend, but you’ve got an inoperable malignancy in your brain that will cause a slow, painful, untreatable death, where you will lose more and more of your sanity.”

Gulp… there goes that “I ain’t afraid of death…”

Unless one has not wasted much of his or her life with pettiness and truly knows that he or she is not this body and its brain.

My Guru always said to live this day as f it were your last. Not in fear of death, but to fully live the day to its fullest potential and with great joy. Such “living within the moment,” is to live a life of Dharma. Because then you value each and every moment, and see its value reflected in everyone else and in all life. Thus you can’t help yourself, but to serve those who are suffering. Help the sick and ill and those who are hurting in spirit and body. Thus the ego no longer clings to the walls of its self-imposed prison, it is gently let go, and when you breathe your last, it is just like that last breath before, but now you are breathing in the bardos, where you stand naked without the shelter of a mind to protect your ego. In this space between lives, if you haven’t wasted your life, it will go so smoothly. A lot of the fear before dying does come from an inner awareness that, oops, I sort of wasted this one… err, sorry. What now?

It’s a bit like the adage, “If you life by the sword, you die by the sword.” How you live is how you die. If you lived in God’s embrace, you die in God’s embrace.
_________________________
Namaste, Asoka Ram Om Nama Shiva Jaya Durga Ma Oh my dearest Mother by Kashi Ganga, I kiss your fiercely nurturing feet... Hanuman Ki Jay! In this Year of the Monkey...

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#981 - 02/01/04 02:51 AM Re: Death Rituals : Asokaram.....?? [Re: Dove]
Shaivite Offline
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Registered: 11/06/02
Posts: 2999
I'm not sure why people are afraid of death. You are questioning that people should have a level of fear of death. I honestly do not fear death at all. It doesn't make sense to fear something you cannot avoid. Everyone dies and 150 years from now, everyone currently on earth will be gone. If you have faith that your life's karma will lead to another life with better circumstances and more learning experiences, you won't fear death. I don't fear death because I know that I will die someday and that my karma (which is in my control) will determine what is right for my future and in addition I trust that God will guide me along the way and help keep me on the right path. I don't fear dying much either unless for some reason it is excessively painful. The process of dying can be painful, but again everyone has to go through it so there should be no fear. The only thing that I do fear a little bit is unfinished business in this life. I don't want to leave this life at a bad time. This is why we should always have our lives and plans very organized just in case something does happen and the current life ends. Namaste. ~Shaivite~

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#982 - 02/01/04 02:51 PM Re: Death Rituals : Asokaram.....?? [Re: Shaivite]
Dove Offline
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Registered: 11/24/03
Posts: 73
Loc: North America
Very well said indeed from both of you Asokaram & Shaivite
and agreed, possibly for me its as I become older and yes try to live it to its fullest each day as well. Yes it is of normality to feel as many of whats stated. Possibly just a needed overcome shadow affect at times I deal with for now with innerself....recongnizing the time affect coming into place with age. Myself more so if some at its coming near one day, even so not knowing when, but just the fact of, not ready of letting go to the fact. Mainly what-dealing with self conscience of it.....
Thank you for your replys.......and yes certainly agreed upon the peace with God now and at ones time to come-greatly agreed!! Mmmmm guess need to meditate on it more for even myself inner peace of the *idea* of it troublsome within me! You are soooo kind to reply, Peace Always Dove

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#983 - 02/03/04 11:19 PM Re: Death Rituals : Asokaram.....?? [Re: Shaivite]
AlooGhobi Offline
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Registered: 08/06/03
Posts: 303
Loc: Seattle, WA, USA
Living life in preparation for death is not a life at all. Living life in ignorance of death is also unrealistic. I appreciate your stance that death is something we cannot avoid, but we can still have fear of something that is inevitable.

The human condition teaches us to avoid pain at all costs. Yet, the dharma teaches us that pain is a natural condition of this existence. We're not to seek pain, but endurance of pain can cause a loosening of the attachment to pleasure.

There are so many tangents to explore off of the topic of death, and I'm afraid that if I continue on, I may not stay with one, but explore several. As a Vidyan, I believe that understanding and knowledge can only make the path to enlightenment easier. So, I'm very happy to see active discussions on death.

Others might consider death a morose topic, but like the old addage goes, "There are only two certainties in life: Death and taxes." A fundamental topic is always good to study.

Here's an ethical question to discuss: Why do we use medicines and make attempts at preserving our own life if we believe that the next incarnation will be better than this one? Should we let this body go in effort to reach the next stage in our evolution? I've already found my answer, but what do you all think?
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http://www.14th.org/ "There is more to life than simply increasing its speed." - Ghandhi

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#984 - 02/05/04 09:56 AM Re: Death Rituals : Asokaram.....?? [Re: AlooGhobi]
asokaram Offline
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Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 261
Loc: Denmark
Quote:

Living life in preparation for death is not a life at all.



The rejoinder was there if you’d read it.
Quote:

live this day as if it were your last. Not in fear of death, but to fully live the day to its fullest potential and with great joy. Such “living within the moment,” is to live a life of Dharma. Because then you value each and every moment, and see its value reflected in everyone else and in all life.




Anticipating that the next lifetime will be better is to not live in the moment, my friend. And will certainly not bring about a better lifetime, if by this you mean to simply not take responsibility for this incarnartion. Reducing suffering in the world, in ourselves, has everything to do with the consciouss responsibility of living as healthy as possible, including healing one's own and others illnesses. Medicine in this light fits very well in the path of dharma.
_________________________
Namaste, Asoka Ram Om Nama Shiva Jaya Durga Ma Oh my dearest Mother by Kashi Ganga, I kiss your fiercely nurturing feet... Hanuman Ki Jay! In this Year of the Monkey...

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#985 - 02/06/04 12:51 AM Re: Death Rituals : Asokaram.....?? [Re: AlooGhobi]
Shaivite Offline
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Registered: 11/06/02
Posts: 2999
I do not think we should cop-out this life for hopes of a better next life. I look at it this way. There is a big skyscraper. At the bottom point on it (perhaps deep in the basement) is the location farthest from where we want to go. At the top of the building is Brahman. There is a whole array of staircases leading up and down the building either to or away from Brahman and it doesn't matter which staircase (journey) you take but that you travel the right direction. Dharma is up and adharma is down. My atman is somewhere on one of the staircases and each stair is a lifetime.

That is how I believe the cycle of rebirth can be explained. Each life is a stair on the big staircase to Brahman. We are all trying to progress and you cannot travel from one stair to the next without having one foot on the stair before. Therefore, we must use this life for spiritual growth and not waste it. If you think every lifetime that you don't need to focus on spiritualism since you have unlimited chances, metaphorically speaking you will just stay on the same stair smoking a cigarette and not going anywhere. So, we should use this life and this stair as a vantage point to work hard to rising up closer to Brahman and progressing more on the journey. So, we shouldn't wait for death but use our time right now to do something to come closer to Brahman. Namaste. ~Shaivite~

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