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#5427 - 06/03/00 04:08 PM Christians Converting to Hinduism ***
Vishal_Agarwal Offline
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Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 1572
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#5428 - 06/07/00 06:50 PM A growing challange to Christianity in Mizoram [Re: Vishal_Agarwal]
Vishal_Agarwal Offline
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Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 1572
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#5429 - 06/25/00 06:47 PM Tribal Family Converts to Hinduism [Re: Vishal_Agarwal]
Vishal_Agarwal Offline
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Loc: India
Tribal family reconverted to Hinduism

Cuttack, June 18 (UNI) - A five-member tribal family was
reconverted to Hinduism in a remote village of this
district yesterday, the second reconversion incident in
Orissa this month.

The reconversion was performed by Swami Prana Rupananda,
president of the Cuttack unit of Banabasi Kalyan Ashram,
in the ashram premises at Keutibereni village near
Choudwar, about 25 km from here.

On June 2, seventy-two Christian tribals from Manoharpur
village in Keonjhar district, where Australian missionary
Graham Staines was burnt to death, were converted to
Hinduism at a function attended by the Shankaracharya of
Puri, Swami Nischalananda Saraswati.

While the reconversion at Monoharpur village had the
prior approval of the district administration, no prior
approval was sought for yesterday's reconversion
organised by the Vishwa Hindu Parishad (VHP).

On receiving information, Choudwar police station
officer-in- charge J N Mohanty along with an Additional
Tahsildar rushed to the spot today to inquire into the
matter. The police and the district administration
claimed that neither the converts nor the organisers had
intimated them about the reconversion or filed affidavits
as required under the Orissa Freedom of Religion Act.

Sunday, June 18, 2000



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#5430 - 07/21/00 01:50 AM Conversion of Samuel Stokes [Re: Vishal_Agarwal]
Vishal_Agarwal Offline
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Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 1572
Loc: India
This article depicts the life of an American Christian missionary who himself converted to Hinduism

http://www.cnn.com/ASIANOW/time/magazine/2000/0717/books.india.html



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#5431 - 09/07/00 07:32 PM Re: Christians Converting to Hinduism [Re: Vishal_Agarwal]
Vishal_Agarwal Offline
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Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 1572
Loc: India
INDO-EUROPEAN ENCOUNTER:
AN EUROPEAN PAGAN AND NON WESTERN PERSPECTIVE


Dear Hindu Brothers and Sisters,

To begin with, I would like to pay tribute to Ram Swarup, a man of
great importance to our Indian brothers as a sage of the Vedic
renaissance, but also to me personally as a young European whom he
welcomed so kindly.

To our Indian brethren I have nothing to teach about this remarkable
man who played such an essential part in defending and explaining the
Tradition. His friends have paid tribute to him with reverence: Sita
Ram Goel (the courageous publisher of Voice of India, who ensured that
the sage, who was ostracised for a time, could express his thought
despite the censorship, hostility and indifference he faced), and
David Frawley in his superb preface to the posthumously published work
of Ram Swarup On Hinduism.(1) Your Prime Minister Atal Behari Vajpayee
rightly said that he was «a representative of India’s rishi tradition
in the modern age».

As for me, I can never adequately express my debt to Ram Swarup whom I
first met three years ago. We had corresponded before I came to India,
and I had published a long interview with him (and Sita Ram Goel and
K.R. Malkani) on Hindutva, which was undoubtedly the first special
issue published in French with the participation of intellectuals of
the Vedic renaissance (2). Ram Swarup approved of the approach of my
journal Antaios, which deals with the awakening of the native -
Pagan - religions of Europe, and with freedom from the dogma of the
Semitic religions and materialism. The first thing he did when he saw
me was to put his hand on my shoulder as a father would and say, his
eyes sparkling with kindness: «Ah, you are young, so you will be able
to fight for a long time». This remark, coming from the old combatant
that he was, who had actively fought the major deceptions of the
century (colonialism, Marxism, anti-Hindu secularism, Christian
missions, Islamophilia, etc.), was a compliment. He seemed to trust
the young foreigner who had come to meet him. It was above all a call
to lucidity, a call to battle. Not a battle to be waged exclusively
with the outside world, but also a battle against the enemy within,
for the old sage knew that our worst enemy is within us and that our
internal enemy is the most difficult to conquer. In the course of our
long subsequent discussions, I came to appreciate the immense breadth
of his culture, his generosity, and also his sense of humour. To have
met a man of such human value is a privilege for which I cannot thank
the Gods enough. It was Ram Swarup who gave me my first lessons in
Sanatana Dharma. He encouraged me on the difficult path of
rediscovering my identity which had been repressed first by the
imprint of centuries of Christianity then with the stamp of
materialism. It was he who, on the last occasion we met and when the
time came to say goodbye, was able to find the right words to
encourage and advise me to practice mental yoga so as to face up to a
hostile or at the least an indifferent world. His friendship was both
deep and dispassionate, and for this his influence was all the more
striking. I have dwelt on these very personal considerations to show
you how important this man was and remains for all those who strive
for the restoration of the Dharma. Ram Swarup is an example to be
followed, a true spiritual guide.

As a result of the contacts we had with Ram Swarup, Sita Ram Goel and
so many other Hindu friends, our European group came to understand
that we were not alone, and that our work found its echo at the other
end of the continent. Let us now make a brief overview of the work of
the Polytheistic journal Antaios that I have been directing since
1993. Mircea Eliade, a specialist on India, founded the review in
1959. In the 1920s, he had been a disciple of Surendranath Dasgupta,
the well-known historian of Indian philosophy, and the German writer
Ernst Jünger (a disciple of Nietzsche among others) who said in 1959:
«a free world can only be a spiritual world». The periodical was
published in German until 1971. Its objective was to combat Western
nihilism by a return to classical sources. In 1993, a small group of
us revived Antaios with the blessing of the venerable German writer
Jünger, who remained interested in our work until his death in 1998 at
the age of 103. He was our oldest reader.

We are also followers of another great example : Alain Daniélou, the
French indologist, initiated to traditional Shaivism in Kashi where he
lived more than 15 years. Danielou devoted his entire life to the
defense of Hindu Dharma. He was himself a follower of Swami
Karpatriji. He worked with Karpatriji, translated some of his texts in
several languages (and also translated in Hindi texts of René Guénon,
for instance in Karpatriji’s journal Siddhanta). In his passionate
autobiography The way of the Labyrinth, Daniélou wrote these lines :
I tried to offer an insight into the profound values of this
extraordinary civilisation, the only one of all the great
civilisations of the ancient world that has survived, whose
contribution, were it better known, could revolutionize modern
thinking and bring a new Renaissance. This was probably why people are
so afraid of it » (3). When I read these lines fifteen years ago, it
was a sort of revelation. Since then, I have never forgotten Daniélou’
s fundamental message.

From its beginnings, the orientation of Antaios has been clearly
pagan: to restore in Europe – and on other continents – the polytheist
and non-dualist wisdom of the eternal tradition, which you refer to as
Sanatana Dharma. This is not a new philosophical direction in Europe.
Since Antiquity, and despite the censorship of Christianity, there
have always been more or less hidden dissidents. Today, the Church has
lost the total power it previously possessed, and thus it has become
possible to challenge secular cultural and spiritual self alienation
and to reaffirm, finally, after centuries of being in hiding,
Paganism - that is to say the restoration of non conversion-based
beliefs, non dogmatic approach, self- and God-realization, and wisdom
such as Vidya, the way of knowledge. All this, which still exists in
India despite Muslim, Christian and materialistic aggressions, also
existed in Europe. But in Europe, the work of the missionaries has
been successfully achieved: temples have been burnt or converted to
other uses; holy books have been consigned to the flames; priests (our
“Brahmins”) have been killed, and our beliefs have been ridiculed. In
summary, a veritable spiritual genocide, like all the initiatives in
favour of conversion on the five continents by the protagonists of the
one and only deity, i.e. the jealous God of the Monotheists.

How was pagan thought able to survive the catastrophe caused by the
christianisation of Europe? To reinforce its hold over the minds of
the people, the Church needed the help of the stalwarts of pagan
thought and rituals. Thus, it appropriated for its own use – often
superficially - the philosophy of Plato, Aristotle and Plotinus, the
old festivals, rituals and symbols. Despite this, scholarly Christian
priests were fascinated by the very pagan wisdom that they had
persecuted, but which lived on in their memories (and their libraries)
as a living reproach.

For serious students of Greek philosophy, particularly of the
Pre-Socratic philosophers (Pythagorus, Empedocles), the link with
Brahmanic thought is obvious: transmigration of the soul, concept of
eternal return, importance of harmonics and primordial sounds, ascetic
way of life, vegetarianism, etc. As our beloved Ram Swarup reminds us
so well in his spiritual legacy «the Greece of Pythagoras, Plato and
Plotinus has more in common with Hindu India than with Christian
Europe» (On Hinduism, p. 98). Books have been written about the links
between Greece and India: for instance R. Baine Harris ed.,
Neoplatonism and Indian thought (Delhi 1992). Greece and India, and
also the Celtic world (the Celtic Druids are the cousins of the
Brahmins) may be distant in space but they are close in spirit. Their
origins are identical, since the brilliant Vedic and Hellenic
civilisations go back to a common pre-Vedic and pre-Hellenic source.
This was probably a polar source, as Lokamanya Bal Gangâdhar Tilak has
capably demonstrated in his book which should be essential reading
(and was partly written in prison because of his involvement in the
Indian liberation movement) The Arctic Home of the Vedas (1903). The
polar source explains the common structure of the Indo-European
languages, from Lithuanian to Sanskrit, as well as obvious
relationships between the Indo-European mythologies, and between the
archaic roman religion and the Vedic religion. For example, the
sacrifice of the horse, which took place in Rome each October in
honour of the god Mars, corresponds to the Vedic asvamedha in honour
of Indra. A similar ritual of the sacrifice of a horse can be found in
pagan Ireland. Let us be clear; this does not represent an Indian
influence over Rome or Ireland, or a Roman or Irish influence over
India, but a relationship due to a common origin, and one which dates
back in time to when our common Indo-European (the term “Aryan” is
awkward to use in Europe because of its nazi connotations) ancestors
still formed a single tribe (4).

In his famous book Shiva and Dionysus, Daniélou demonstrates that
between Lord Shiva and the Greek Dionysus, the pre-Aryan gods of
ecstasy and ways to harmony with nature and cosmos, there is a common
link, a 6000 years old way to unity with the divine (5).

Among the ordinary folk, the old traditions survived with a very thin
veneer of Christianity. Christianity (mainly Catholicism, more than
Protestantism) has retained many pre-Christian traditions (6). Good
examples are the feasts of the Nativity and that of St John, which
correspond to the winter and summer solstices respectively. The title
of «pope» comes from the liturgy of the mysteries of Mithra, an
Indo-Iranian God honoured by the armies of Rome. There are many
similar examples, which demonstrate that Europe is not fundamentally
Christian any more than India is fundamentally Muslim or China
fundamentally Marxist. All these alien ideologies have been imposed
from the outside, and as such their trace will be washed away with
time, like a bad painting on the hull of a ship.

If ancient India and ancient Europe both have common roots, so modern
India and modern Europe are both faced with common threats. Threats to
the ecosystem, climate changes, and other threats that mankind must
face up to. But there is another threat, which springs from the
Judeo-Christian way of thinking and is thus alien to our not-dogmatic,
non-proselytising and tolerant tradition: the phenomenon of
conversions. Conversion to the single model, be it the one God, the
single party system or the single market, or the supremacy of any
socio-political institution over the entire society.

Conversion to the one God, in the tradition of the religions of
Abraham. Conversions that Christian missionaries want to impose on
Indians crudely or by more subtle means. To some, the advantages of
egalitarianism, more preached than practiced by Christians, are
extolled. For others the civilizing character of conversion and the
possibility to forget their ancestral inheritance (thus betraying
their ancestors) is put forward. Manipulation by suspect persons such
as Mother Theresa, all the devices of systematic anti-Hindu
propaganda, have managed to make a considerable number of Hindus, who
for long have but weakly defended their traditions against these
deceptions, feel guilty. Fortunately, this period of alienation seems
to have ended with the coming to power of people prepared to defend
Hinduism (7). Let us hope that the harmful role of the Christian
missionaries will soon be neutralised, both in India and elsewhere.
Besides, our group is following with interest the work of the Hindu
Vivek Kendra to defend Hindu traditions against missionary aggression
and hate-propaganda (8).

Today in Europe, the danger no longer comes from the Catholic Church,
for it has run out of steam.
Since the Council of Vatican II in the sixties, the Church has openly
proved its decline : the sacred language – Latin (our « perfect »
language)- has been neglected and all the old mantras disappeared from
the Catholic pujas. The Catholic priests now turn their back to their
God, i.e. to the East, looking to the assistance (i.e. to the West),
which is complete inversion.

Christianity is an historical religion with a beginning and thus an
end. For us, followers of Sanatana Dharma, Eternal Tradition, this is
absurd… but their conception of time is linear, not cyclic. So it is
logic to say that the Christian reign will finish one day, as it
started 2000 years ago. This cycle is slowly but firmly closing.

This does not mean that the Church is not a danger anymore: it is
still (politically, financially) powerful. The declarations of the
Pope about the so-called conversion (i.e. spiritual aggression) of
India can be interpreted as a political error (he was invited by
ugly » Hindu fundamentalists and insulted the whole Indian people.
Can we imagine an Indian President urging the Italians to become
followers of Shiva or Vishnu?) but also as a sort of escape, out of
reality for in the West, churches are getting unoccupied, day after
day. The Church is now unable to find priests and must import African
priests, often ignorant. Contemporary Christians are really ignorant:
most of them believe in reincarnation, astrology, ignore hell and
paradise, in a word they ignore everything about theology but are
fascinated by Pagan heritage.

Rather the main danger comes from the colonisation of our countries
by immigrant Muslim North-African populations. One of our friends, the
writer and sociologist G. Faye published a controversial book on this
phenomenon. It has already caused considerable scandal in France,
although this has been kept from the readers by the “right-thinking”
press. The phenomenon is that of massive immigration into the country
by populations from Africa and the Maghreb (coming from the lower
levels of the social hierarchy) and through births in the immigrant
population. This is combined with an assault on Europe by an
aggressive form of Islam, supported by foreign powers such as Saudi
Arabia and Pakistan (9). Our proximity to North Africa, where there is
a rapid population increase, whilst in Europe the population is in
decline, and the serious imbalance between the two sides of the
Mediterranean, constitute serious threats and undermine Europe’s
cultural and ethnic homogeneity. Islamisation, particularly in France
but also in Great Britain and Germany, goes hand in hand with this
invasive immigration – and criticism of it is forbidden for fear of
being accused of «racism» (a good example of cultural and political
auto-alienation). Faye, who is also a Pagan, reminds us in his
«shocking» book that Islam is «absolute and proselytising universalism
with an imperative vocation to conquer the entire world». He is right.
Islam, a religion born of the desert, is above all a religion that
creates new mental, psychic and spiritual deserts; it is ethnically
and politically imperialistic; and one which believes in universal
conquest through violence, assisted by its ethics of exclusion and
intolerance. We have seen this in India…. But Europeans are not
interested in the history of real India, Hindu India. Dazzled by
Christian or Marxist ways of thinking, they prefer the fascination of
Muslim India. A revealing example: the most popular French tourist
guide to Delhi provides full information on the mosques in the
capital, but practically nothing on the temples! Faye also reminds us
that the Koran is above all a manual of subversive warfare, which
nobody reads. Those who have read it know that the book justifies
conquest in three stages:

1) Dar al Sulh: in this stage the Muslim community is a minority
community and momentarily adopts a peaceful attitude all the better to
dupe the infidel, who thus naively allows his soil to be proselytised.
(According to Le Monde of 9.12.99, 50,000 French people have converted
to Islam up till now). This is the position in Europe today.
2) Dar al Harb: the territory of the infidel becomes a war zone.
Perhaps there is resistance to Islam, or perhaps the Muslim population
has reached a critical mass. In Europe, we now see the first signs of
a low-intensity civil war: ethnic disturbances (which are not reported
in the press), and widespread rioting by the younger generations of
North Africans (who foray out from their no-go areas).
3) Dar al Islam: Muslims dominate the population and infidels are at
best tolerated (as dhimmis: « protected» and required to pay a special
tax) and at worst expelled or massacred. This was visible in Algeria
and Morocco following independence. And I will not insult you with an
explanation on the situation in Pakistan and Bangladesh after
partition and also the forceful mass-conversion of defeated Hindus
during 10th to 16th centuries in India.

Some imams have quite plainly stated that the objective, according to
God’s will, was to transform Europe into Dar al Islam. In all
evidence, the coming century will see a second wave of Muslim
expansion in the West. The first was successfully repulsed from the
8th century onwards. But to make such a statement in Europe today
makes one liable to prosecution (and Faye has just been indicted).
Politically correct dogma requires peaceful coexistence between
cultures; this is an utopic view that a basic study of history (for
example that of India) will destroy. A few months ago I had the
pleasure of meeting a very brave man, Ibn Warraq, in Paris, on the
occasion of the publication of the French version of his book: Why I
am not a Muslim. The book is the first criticism of substance of
Islam. The author confirmed the facts to me. Another author, Pierre
Gallois, a French Air Force General, instigator of the French nuclear
deterrent and a specialist of military strategy, has just published a
book with an evocating title: Le soleil d’Allah aveugle l’Occident
(The West is blinded by the sun of Allah) (10). These authors warn us
against the utopia of pacifism, and of the danger of remaining totally
blind to Islam as a deadly threat to secular traditions.

Another friend of ours, a political scientist and a specialist in
geopolitics, and a follower of General Gallois, has published a book
which also created a furore among “right-minded thinkers” (11). His
name is A. del Valle and his book demonstrates in a highly credible
fashion that, in Islam, faith is indissociable from political
theocracy. He further states that aggressive Islamism is not
«heretical» for it represents an application of the dogma of jihad, a
traditional and perfectly legitimate dogma for Muslims. Moreover, del
Valle proves that Islam, aggressive and expanding from Europe to
India, has found an ally as formidable as it is surprising: the United
States. For, ever since the Russian invasion of Afghanistan, the
Americans have armed and trained – often with the help of their Saudi
ally – the toughest Islamic movements. Our friend also shows that
Muslim fundamentalism cohabits perfectly with the most ferocious
capitalism. In the scenario of a confrontation between civilisations
predicted by a Pentagon analyst, S. Huntington, the USA would arm
Islam against Europe, Russia and India. As a result of the Gulf War,
the USA has total control over the oil wells of this strategic region.
To justify their support to the state of Israel, they support, for
example, the Muslims against the orthodox Slav block (Serbian war) in
the Balkans. They approve the indiscriminate immigration of Muslims to
Europe. They support the Turkish (neo-Ottoman) designs in Central Asia
(against Moscow) and support Turkey in its bid to join the European
Union. I will not lecture you on the role played by the Americans
against Delhi in Pakistan, which America considers as one of its
colonies: the aim, as in the case of Europe and Russia, is to weaken
an emerging power, in this case India.

Conversion too to the single party system, for example Marxism. The
collapse of the USSR in recent history has clearly shown the limits of
Marxism as a totalitarian doctrine, which cannot understand any other
civilisation than its own. And yet, despite the human failures, the
spiritual disasters, and the economic catastrophe it brought about,
there are still many firm believers in Marxism whose theories continue
to influence many people even in Europe. For instance, too many
journalist or scholars are still infected with Marxist dogmatism and
intolerance. Marxism is clearly linked to Christianity: same premises
(linear conception of time, refuge in outer worlds: celestial
Jerusalem or communist paradise, totalitarian egalitarianism which
condemns differences, inquisition and physical elimination of any
opposition, etc). Christian and Marxist propaganda agree to demonise
the old caste system, which preserved during centuries the identity of
India against all exterior aggressions. Due to this intellectual
terrorism, it is now difficult to tell the truth about casts, which
are an important part of India’s genius. Authors like Daniélou or
Dumont (in his book Homo hierarchicus) dare to say the truth: castes
are inherent in human nature.

In today’s context, the third form of conversion is, in my opinion,
the most dangerous. It is the conversion to the single market which
the media, as the agents of consumer propaganda, refer to as
globalisation. Globalisation is not unavoidable, a sort of inevitable
progress, which will bring peace and prosperity throughout the world
as liberal propaganda maintains. Behind the concept of globalisation
lies the United States of America’s ambition to dominate the world
economically, militarily and culturally. This is not «globalisation»,
but imperialism to colonise the world by any means. So-called
«globalisation» means making the planet American. There is no such
thing as «globalisation», which some represent as progress, others as
fate, but an all-out offensive campaign run from Washington to impose
North American models, which are but are universally-formatted
specific characteristics, on the whole planet.

The mask of capitalism, today in full expansion, is what I would call
humanitarian materialism. It dominates people’s minds thanks to a
gigantic mass violation of them. The media has become a propaganda
machine using a clever mixture of stick and carrot to “jam” the mind,
and its purpose is to gain the acceptance in the mentally confused
masses of the official credo: market democracy. As the American
linguist Noam Chomsky describes it so well: «propaganda is to
democracy what force is to a dictatorship, in effect its essence». And
yet, there really is confrontation between different imaginary worlds;
the North American realm of fancy against the other imaginary realms.
This confrontation creates other tensions of a political and economic
nature.

In this war of colonisation, Europe in the midst of political and
economic unification, India in full expansion, and Russia in full
decline, all constitute obstacles to America’s hegemonistic strategy.
In its overall strategy to weaken its opponents and gain overall
control, Washington uses all available means: financial weapons
(competition in the banking sector, rigged negotiations in the
framework of the WTO), food resources (OGM), military pressure (Balkan
War), espionage (Echelon network). Cultural weapons (television, CNN,
destabilising advertising: Coca Cola is more dangerous than the 6th
Fleet. Human materialism postulates a necessary but fatal «freedom» of
the individual from all his affiliations (race, class, profession,
religion, and even sex with the exaltation of homosexuality) and turn
him into a conditioned consumer, slave to the worst of masters, a
faceless master: the market (12).

These three main threats, conquest by Islam, Christian missions and
human materialism are all occurring simultaneously, and they are
self-reinforcing. Protestant missions, whether in India or in South
America or in Russia, prepare the coming of the American traders.
Islamic networks are supported by Washington indirectly through its
Sunni Saudi or Pakistani allies. The example of the oil kingdoms shows
clearlyl that Muslim or Protestant fundamentalism is compatible with
consumerism, as these ideologies postulate the tabula rasa or clean
slate and consider all ancestral traditions as obstacles to be pushed
aside.

What to do?

It would be silly to give up in despair, for the very fragile system
described above - one based on illusion – Maya - (typical of the
great dissolution of Kali Yuga), will only last for a short time. One
of our masters, René Guénon, a traditionalist thinker, already said in
1927, in his famous The Crisis of the modern world: « confusion, error
and darkness can win the day only apparently and in purely ephemeral
way… and nothing can ultimately prevail against the power of truth ».
(13)

Oscar Wilde once said that the United States had passed directly from
a state of savagery to a state of decadence. For the successors of the
great civilisations such as India and classical Europe, it is clear
that our potential destiny of becoming an annex of the American market
(Bible and Business) is unacceptable. Our work, and it is a noble
task, is to restore the Dharma, each according to his own traditions.

In Belgium, Antaios is modestly working towards this end, as does the
Voice of India and so many others. We have founded the Society of
Polytheistic Studies to raise funds, support our journal Antaios and
organise meetings. Our last meeting was in Paris with a lecture given
by prof. Maffesoli, one of the most influent French sociologist… who
is a Polytheist ! For the moment, we are just a minority, slowly
growing, sometimes demonised or ignored by the press and the
University (but in England there are some Pagan scholars). I myself
plan to publish a Pagan manifesto in October: Parcours païen (Pagan
Itinerary) (Ed. L’Age d’Homme, Lausanne) in the same publishing house
as Ibn Warraq’s book Why I am not a Muslim.

In Lithuania, the World Congress of Ethnic Religions has been created
: it would be nice that Hindus become members of this association
devoted to the defence of Paganism. WCER organises an annual meeting
with people coming from Poland, Iceland, Russia, Belgium, France, etc.
(www.wcer.org)

In France, a more radical movement (closer to RSS style) has started
to be spoken about: Terre et Peuple. Its president, a professor of
medieval history and a well-known Indophile, has recently published a
manifesto in which he calls upon Europeans to rid themselves of
consumerism and nihilism, to rediscover their pagan origin (14), and
to combat the development of Islam on the continent. These constitute
the modest signs of a reaction to the deep crisis. There are others,
much more important. The Seattle demonstrations; the coming to power,
in the world’s biggest democracy, of a party which openly dares to
defend the Dharma; the still embryonic renaissance of native
religions; and the interest in the environment worldwide: all these
are signs of a reply to the disorder engendered by liberalism.

In the battle we find the same enemy, our worse enemy: our own
weakness, our own ignorance and divisions.

We Resistance fighters all over the Eurasiatic continent, from Ireland
to India, need a large alliance against chaos and destruction, for the
defence of Dharma, the noblest task for our generation.

Europeans can warn you against dangers of modernity and we can find in
India an ally able to assist us in a return to our native culture “out
of the ruins of the West”. Europe has to free itself from the West and
re-discover its true identity, true to the Dharma. In this endeavour,
the rediscovery of India and the ancient relationship between the
Vedic civilisation and the ancient Greek and Celtic civilisations
will, for example, be of great assistance. As the philosopher
Nietzsche said: «the man of the future will be the man with the
longest memory». Ram Swarup, sage of the Vedic renaissance, says the
same thing in his spiritual legacy. I shall quote it as my concluding
remark: «The Ramayana and the Mahabharata can help in restoring this
lost dimension». Let us follow in his footsteps and re-read the
pre-Socratic Greek philosophers and the Upanishads of India to obtain
our self-rediscovery.


We know that as we say in Latin « Vincit omnia veritas ». In your
sacred language, you would say « Satyam eva jayate ». (15)

Thank you for your attention.


New Delhi, 22nd July 2000

The lecture was organised by Vishwa Adhyayan Kendra, held in
Constitution Club, New Delhi, with prof L. Chandra and K.R. Malkani.


References:


(1) Ram Swarup, On Hinduism. Reviews and Reflections, Voice of India,
Delhi 2000.
(2) Antaios X, Hindutva, Interviews with Ram Swarup and Sita Ram Goel
(in French), Brussels 1996.
(3) A. Daniélou, The way of the Labyrint. Memories of East and West,
New Directions Paperbook, New York 1987. First edition in 1981, in
French.
(4) J. Haudry, The Indo-Europeans, Institut d’Etudes Indo-Européennes,
Lyon 1994. See also B. Oguibenine, Essays on Vedic and Indo-European
Culture, Motilal Banarsidass, Delhi 1998.
(5) A. Daniélou, Shiva and Dionysus, Inner Traditions Intern., New
York 1984
(6) R. Fletcher, The Conversion of Europe. From Paganism to
Christianity 371-1386 AD, Harper Collins, London 1997. And the
remarkable work of two Pagan scholars: P. Jones & N. Pennick, A
History of Pagan Europe, Routledge, London 1995.
(7) K. Elst, Psychology of Prophetism. A Secular Look at the Bible,
Voice of India, Delhi 1993. See also Sita Ram Goel, Jesus Christ. An
Artifice for Aggression, Voice of India, Delhi 1994 and, Defense of
Hindu Society, Voice of India, Delhi 1994.
(8) A.V. Chowgule, Christianity in India. The Hindutva Perspective,
Hindu Vivek Kendra, Mumbai 1999.
(9) G. Faye, La Colonisation de l’Europe. Discours vrai sur l’
immigration et l’islam, Aencre, Paris 2000.
(10) Ibn Warraq, Pourquoi je ne suis pas Musulman, L’Age d’Homme,
Lausanne 1999. See also P.M. Gallois, Le soleil d’Allah aveugle l’
Occident, Age d’Homme, Lausanne 1998.
(11) A. del Valle, Islamisme et Etats-Unis. Une alliance contre l’
Europe, Age d’Homme, Lausanne 1997.
(12) See Le Monde diplomatique, mai 2000: « L’Amérique dans les
têtes ».
(13) R. Guénon, The Crisis of the Modern World, Indica Books, Benares
1999.
(14) P. Vial, Une Terre, un peuple, Ed. Terre et Peuple, Lyon 2000
email: terreetpeuple@hotmail.com).
(15) R. Guénon, The Crisis of the Modern World, op. cit., p. 142.




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#5432 - 09/08/00 08:04 AM Re: Christians Converting to Hinduism [Re: Vishal_Agarwal]
Mughal Offline
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Registered: 04/28/00
Posts: 535
Loc: Vilnius, Lithuania
In reply to:

One of our masters, René Guénon, a traditionalist thinker, already said in 1927, in his famous The Crisis of the modern world: « confusion, error and darkness can win the day only apparently and in purely ephemeral way… and nothing can ultimately prevail against the power of truth ».
(13)


Is Rene Guenon, alias SHEYKH ABDEL WAHED YAHYA who lived and died with the name of Allah on his lips really your master? Do you know than many of these 50 000 French who coverted to Islam did that through Guenon and guenonists?

WORLD IS FALSITY, ALLAH IS TRUTH


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#5433 - 11/04/00 05:17 PM Orissa: 70 Hindus convert to Hinduism [Re: Vishal_Agarwal]
Vishal_Agarwal Offline
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Posts: 1572
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Seventy Christians reconvert to Hinduism in Orissa

Rediff On The Net
Tuesday, October 24, 2000

About 70 members of 12 tribal Christian families have
formally reconverted to Hinduism at Khandibara village
Nawrangpur district in Orissa, district Superintendent of
Police, Ghanashyam Parida said on Tuesday. Parida said
the tribals, who had earlier embraced Christianity, had
virtually returned to the Hindu fold about a decade ago.

Last Sunday, they were formally reconverted to Hinduism
at a function held in the village, which was attended by
some local Vishwa Hindu Parishad leaders, Parida said.

He said these tribal families had not given any prior
intimation to the district collector regarding their
reconversion.

The district authorities had already submitted a report
to the state government in this regard, he said.

Tuesday, October 24, 2000
Click on the Rediff link at News Plus



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#5434 - 11/26/00 07:17 PM Kerala: Italian couple convert to Hinduism [Re: Vishal_Agarwal]
Vishal_Agarwal Offline
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Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 1572
Loc: India
The Times of India News Service
The Times of India
Sunday, November 5, 2000

Tiruvananthapuram - Two Italians who flew in here with
friends for Ayurved treatment have decided to tie the
knot according to Hindu rites at a Shiv temple here on
Sunday.

Mason Graziella, a Homeo doctor and Schaffelke Dietmar, a
music producer told the Times of India over the phone
that they were attracted to Hinduism for its catholicity
and vedanta. Currently the couple and 13 of their Italian
friends are staying at Nikki's Nest in Vizhinjam.

Both of them are divorcees. Dietmar is a 42-year-old
divorcee with a boy and Graziella, 38, has a daughter
born from her earlier marriage. The kids, they said, have
given their consent and wishes.

According to Dr. Franklin who treated the couple with
'panchkarm' Ayurved for rejuvenation, the two had
expressed their desire to get married according to Hindu
rites at a famous temple. They chose the Shiv temple
there and got an astrologer to fix a muhurtham which is
on Sunday at 5.30 p.m. They also believed that the
marriage has longevity if conducted according to Hindu
rites!



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#5435 - 01/25/01 09:44 PM Chhattisgarh: 2200 Christians convert [Re: Vishal_Agarwal]
Vishal_Agarwal Offline
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Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 1572
Loc: India
Title: Mass Conversion comes Wrapped in a Saree
Author: Suchandana Gupta
Source: The Telegraph, Calcutta
Date: January 26, 2001
URL: None available

Raigharh, January 25

A synthetic saree their rite of passage, thousands of Christian tribals reverted to their "natural" state of Hinduism in Chhatisgarh yesterday.

The stadium in Sitapur in Sarguja district, 145 km from here, was the venue for the mass "reconversion". As the grounds burnt with 25 havans (fire-pits) dug for the afternoon ceremony and as the flames fed on gallons of ghee, 2200 tribals from 341 families were "born again" as Hindus, at the best of Dilip Singh Judeo, BJP Rajya Sabha MP.

A new saree or a cottom dhoti was handed over as a symbolic way of casting away Christianity.

Most of the tribals, who had not seen a new piece of cloth for severl years, happily received the mantra from Ram Chandra Mishra, the royal priest of the Judeo palace in Jashpur. The BJP MP behind the yajna is a member of the erstwhile royal family of Jashpur.

The "reconversion", less than 24 hours after the Congress President Sonia Gandhi's first visit to Chhatisgarh, was said to carry a direct political message aimed at chief minister Ajit Jogi, a tribal Christian.

Judeo claimed his party had nothing to do with this conversion. "The BJP does not figure at all. This is my mission alone". The "mission" was named "ghar wapasi".

The poverty sticken, starving tribals who gathered since early morning to "return to their origins" belonged to the Uraon Scheduled Tribe.

A "purification" followed by the "conversion" rites with the sprinkling of Ganga water. "After the 'gangajal', we administer two or three drops f the panchagap," said Mishra. "Panchagap is a mixture of cowdung, urine, milk, ghee and curd. At the end, we ask the convert to throw in a betel leaf, a betel nut, a piece of coconut and sprinkle some water over the fire," the head priest added.

A talisman with the picture of a Hindu god was tied around a convert's neck, after which the tribals were served a hearty meal of rice, dal, vegetables and pickle, The BJP MP sat on a low stool in the open field and washed the feet of every "new" Hindu. "When the church converts, they have plenty to give the tribals, be it bread, butter, medicines, treatment, clothes, rice, pulses, oil. We cannot afford so much," Judeo said.

"So far we have converted no less than 1,65,000 Christian tribals from Orissa, Bihar and Maharashtra," Judeo claimed.

Most of the tribals said that they were "disillusioned" with Christianity. "Mine was a Hindu family. But some 20 years ago the preachers came. They spoke of Christ and equality amongst all. They said that they would educate us, feed us, clothe us and that no one would be any higher than the other," said 50-year old Manjuram of village Jamdohri. "Food flowed into our home like we had never ever dreamt before. In return we had only to visit Church every Sunday. My whole family converted. But immediately after the conversion, the supplies stopped. The priests diverted their attention from us to our neighbors," Manjuram added.

You regret that for a few freebies you gave up the religion, your God, the belief that our forefathers nurtured for centuries. Birsa Munda was one amongst us. He fought the British for the country. And I gave up my religion for a few kilos of rice. It's like you have betrayed your ancestors, your own blood," said Gandhi Bara of village Katkalu.

"So when the offer came from Kumarji (Judeo), I readily agreed," he added. "I have retured to my roots now. I will paint my house white today. Kumarji has said he will supply the whitewash," he added, explaining that in this belt a Christian house is painted with black charcoal and a Hindu house is painted white or blue.


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#5436 - 01/30/01 09:55 PM Californian converts to Hinduism [Re: Vishal_Agarwal]
Vishal_Agarwal Offline
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Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 1572
Loc: India
Hinduism lures Californian

Janaki Bahadur Kremmer
THE WASHINGTON TIMES

Published 1/30/01

http://www.washtimes.com/world/default-2001130213953.htm



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#5437 - 01/31/01 06:58 AM Re: Californian converts to Hinduism *DELETED* [Re: Vishal_Agarwal]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Post deleted by Shaivite

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#5438 - 09/10/01 06:46 PM Orissa: 26 Christian families convert [Re: Vishal_Agarwal]
Vishal_Agarwal Offline
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Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 1572
Loc: India
26 Orissa families reconvert to Hinduism
http://www.rediff.com/news/2001/sep/10oris1.htm
Imran Khan in Bhubaneswar

About 113 converted Christians belonging to 26 families returned to
Hinduism in Rourkela, Orissa, on Sunday.

"All the members of the 26 families willingly returned to the Hindu
fold," the Vishwa Hindu Parishad organising secretary of Rourkela,
Makru Mishra, said on Monday.

Mishra said that they returned to Hinduism at a function of
"self-sanctification" organised by the VHP.

This was the third time in the last one year that the VHP had succeeded
in its campaign to convince converted Christian families to return to
Hinduism in Rourkela.

According to the VHP leader, those families who returned to the Hindu
fold were residents of the Lahunipada, Bonai, Lathikata and Gurundia
areas of Sundargarh district.



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#5439 - 09/30/01 05:41 AM Re: Californian converts to Hinduism
krishna115 Offline
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Registered: 07/09/00
Posts: 33
From the site
http://www.himalayanacademy.com/basics/conversion/09steps.html

this basically gives a short legal and theological description as to how one can become a Hindu. The original page has some links : it gives some letters , some documents showing how one may change ones name and a Vratyastoma Certificate . Good stuff.



How to Become a Hindu

The Steps of Conversion
To gain a clear subconscious for his future religious life, the individual must examine and

reject those beliefs of his previous religion or philosophy which differ from those of the sect

of Hinduism he wishes to join. Then he must examine and accept the Hindu beliefs which are new to

him.

If he was confirmed or otherwise initiated in another religion or ideology, he must effect formal

severance from his previous religion or faith before formally entering the Hindu religion through

the namakarana samskara, the name-giving sacrament. Full religious conversion means that one's

former religious or philosophical leader is made aware, preferably through a personal meeting

with the convert, that the individual is entering a new religion.

Further, ethical conversion means that the parents and relatives, too, understand the momentous

change that has taken place. This societal recognition, along with initiation and vow-giving,

legal change of name on passport and all documents, signifies true conversion on all levels of

being. Nothing less will suffice. Even within Hinduism itself there are formal ceremonies and

soul-searching requirements for Hindus converting from one denomination to another, as when a

Saivite becomes a Vaishnavite or a Smarta becomes a Shakta, accomplished, in part, in some

communities by writing with a golden needle the divine mantras on the convert's tongue.

Before explaining the steps of conversion, we want to advise Hindu societies worldwide to make

close inquiries of adoptives and converts as to their fulfilling the six steps of conversion

which our loving Ganesha has given to us to open the doors to the ardha-Hindu into the fullness

of the sectarian faith of his or her choice. Detailed below are the procedures for religious

reconciliation that we have established in our own fellowship, leading through the process of

severance from former faiths and into Hinduism.

1. Joining a Hindu Community
First and most importantly, the devotee mixes socially and earns acceptance into an established

Hindu community. The devotee should be worshiping regularly at the community's satsangas or

temples, making yearly pilgrimages, performing daily puja and sadhanas within the home and

seriously striving to live up to the culture defined in the 365 Nandinatha Sutras of Living with

Siva, which is a complete statement of Hindu values and culture.

2. Point-Counterpoint
The devotee undertakes certain assigned Hindu studies and a formal analysis of former religions,

denominations, sampradayas or philosophical systems. He or she writes a point-counterpoint

comparing Hinduism with each such school of thought to demonstrate a thorough grasp of the

similarities and differences. Part two of this assignment is to complete a written analysis of

all former pledges or vows, indicating when and why each point mentioned in those vows was

abandoned. This point-counterpoint is then presented to a Hindu elder for his review and comment.

3. Severing from Former Mentors
If formal severance is required, the devotee returns to the former institution and attends

services or lectures for a few weeks. Then, accompanied by a relative or friend as a witness, he

or she meets personally with the former mentor. In the case of a married person, the spouse is

preferred as a witness. The devotee explains that he will be joining the Hindu religion and

wishes to sever ties with this church or institution. For an intimate understanding of severance,

I would like to share with you a letter that one of my kulapati counselors wrote to a potential

convert from Catholicism:

"Your point-counterpoint will do much for you in preparing you to meet your former priest to

convince him that an inner transformation has occurred and you are indeed a Hindu soul, not a

Catholic. This is a face-to-face meeting with the religious leader of your former faith or his

successor. This step is done on a very personal level, as the fire of severance takes place

during this confrontation. It cannot be done through the mail or on the telephone. During this

meeting, your conviction and clear understanding of both religions will allow your priest to see

the thoughtfulness and sincerity of the decision you have made. A letter of release can, many

times, be obtained before you leave his office when he sees clearly that you have completely

abandoned the Catholic faith. This letter validates your personal release and clears the way for

your formal entrance into Hinduism in all three worlds. It is an essential experience and

document necessary for your namakarana samskara."

We have many letters from Catholic priests, even archbishops, attesting to full conversion to

Hinduism on the part of their former paritioners (see below). In the case of formal religions,

the devotee requests a letter of release, as an apostate (such as with the Catholic Church) or as

inactive (as in most Protestant Christian denominations). If the religious leader grants a verbal

severance but will not convey it in writing, the witness to the interview writes a letter stating

what took place. This letter is later given to the guiding elder of the Hindu community the

devotee seeks to fully join.


Even if there is no granting of severance, verbally or in writing, the conversion is still

considered complete, based on the canon law of the Catholic church (and which applies to other

faiths in principle, such as Judaism) that someone who adopts another religion is, ipso facto, an

apostate. In cases where there has been no formal commitment, such as in nonreligious schools of

thought, an inner severance may be effected through heartfelt conversation in which the devotee

shares his or her true convictions.

4. Adopting a Hindu Name
The devotee then proceeds to have his or her name legally changed and then placed on one's

passport, driver's license and all important financial or legal instruments, including credit

cards, library cards and bank accounts. Even before formal entrance to Hinduism, devotees are

encouraged to begin using their Hindu names at all times.

5. The Namakarana Samskara
The name-giving sacrament can be held at any Hindu temple. Before the namakarana samskara, the

devotee informs family, relatives and close friends of his or her name change and intended

entrance into Hinduism. At the sacred name-giving rite, the Hindu name is received, vows are

taken and a certificate is signed, documenting the former name and the new name,

place of ceremony and signature of the priest and at least three witnesses. We have included a

sample namakarana certificate on the next page for this purpose.

6. Announcing the Severance and Name-Giving
After the severance and name-giving, the devotee publishes a three-day announcement in a local

newspaper stating that the name-change has been completed and he or she has entered the Hindu

religion through the namakarana samskara. The devotee should keep a copy of these announcements

and all other documents related to the conversion (such as letters from attorneys and elders) as

part of a dossier verifying the name-giving which may be needed in the future, such as when

seeking acceptance into a conservative Hindu organization, seeking permanent residency or

citizenship in a foreign country or in other cases when the Hindu name may come into question.

Similarly, many temples in India and other countries will ask to see the passport or other

appropriate proof of Hindu identity before admitting devotees of non-Indian origin for more than

casual worship.


Name-Giving Certificate
Below is a certificate that can be photocopied (enlarged) to document a namakarana held at any

temple. This sacrament marks the formal entrance into a particular sect of Hinduism, through the

acceptance and blessings of established members and the blessings of Gods and devas invoked

through rites performed by an authorized Hindu priest.

The Ceremony of Welcoming Back
It is one of the duties of the Hindu priesthood to stand guard at the gates of Sanatana Dharma

and perform the sacred ceremonies for worthy souls to allow them entrance for the first time or

reentrance into the Hindu fold in case they strayed into an alien faith and desire to return. The

priesthoods of all four major denominations of Sanåtana Dharma--Saivism, Vaishnavism, Smartism

and Shaktism--are performing the duty, empowered by the Gods, of bringing devotees back into the

Hindu fold through a congregation of devotees.

When such souls do return, it is the duty of established followers to shepherd them, blend them

in and assist at every opportunity to make them successful members of the international extended

family of our venerable faith.

The process of "reconversion" of Hindus previously converted to other faiths has been widely

practiced in India throughout this century. In many cases the earlier conversion, generally to

Islam or Christianity, occurred several generations ago. Another institution, the Masuranrama in

Bombay, specializes in reconversions through a Shuddhi Shraddha ceremony, bringing in dozens of

new converts each month. Masuranrama's founder, Dharma Bhaskar Masurkar Maharaj, set a strong

precedent in 1928 when he organized the nuddhi ceremony for 1,150 individuals in Goa who were

previously converted to Christianity.

In recent decades, two South Indian anramas--Madurai Aadheenam and Kundrakuddi Aadheenam--have

brought thousands of Indians back into Hinduism through mass conversion rites. This century the

Vishva Hindu Parishad has reportedly brought back into the Hindu fold, beginning in the early

1960s, over one-half million individuals through Shuddhi ceremonies all over India.






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#5440 - 05/13/02 05:12 AM Tripura: 29 Families reconvert to Hinduism [Re: Vishal_Agarwal]
Vishal_Agarwal Offline
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Tribals reconverted to Hinduism in Tripura
From our Correspondent
The Sentinel
May 10, 2002

AGARTALA, May 9: Twenty-nine Jamatia tribal families, who earlier
embarrassed Christianity has recently reconverted to Hinduism in West
Tripura district. Jamatia Hoda, the apex body of the Jamatia community,
which for the last two years was fighting against the forcible
conversion of the tribals to Christianity by the National Liberation
Front of Tripura (NLFT) militants, has supervised the reconversion. All
the family members were accepted to the Hindu society after they went
through some rituals performed by a local priest.

The reconversion of the families were done in three villages under
Teliamura block on different dates during the last one week. The Hoda
Akra (head of the community) Bikram Bahudar Jamatia himself was present
in the last, one held at Hadrai on May 6. Earlier, two reconversion
ceremony was performed at Mohorchara and Hrangkhal Para. It is learnt
that the local administration were aware of the reconversion but did not
interfere with it.

Talking to the correspondent, Mr Jamatia admitted that 29 families of
their community had returned to their original faith after they realized
the mistake they have done either at gun point or for some laurel. He
said many more families are expressing their willingness to return to
their original faith. But the Hoda has asked them to go through some
process and to perform certain religious rites to clean their heart as a
preparation for reconversion. "Some boys who earlier joined to extremism
and converted to Christianity also wanted to return," he said.

Jamatias, a devout Hindu community, remained unaffected till the early
nineties though several other tribal communities embressed Christianity.
In 1998, the Hoda first decided to stand against conversions and
launched a movement against the insurgents. Later, leaders of several
other communities joined them when the RSS and the VHP came to their
aid. They have already formed a forum called the Tribal Culture
Protection Forum.



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#5441 - 05/18/02 10:33 AM ABOUT TIME! [Re: Vishal_Agarwal]
chickpea Offline
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Registered: 04/16/02
Posts: 23
Loc: mm...
This is definitely promising news for our Bharat, our Hindustan, our homeland.
At last there are some organisatiosn that realise how important it is to keep all the "dharmic" religions high and mighty above the evils of Islam and Christianity.
I preach to all followers of dharmic religions living outside the Indian Subcontinent. Donating to a local temple is fantastic news; but what good is that really going to do for the future Hindus of Hindustan? Now here is a good example of an organisation that is really doing it's utmost best for the welfare of Hindus; why not donate to them? Is there any harm?

A Warning that is slowly catching up to Us; eventually, it will hit all of us: HINDUS LIVING IN NON-HINDU MAJORITY STATES OF INDIA HAVE THEIR LIVES AT STAKE!


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#5442 - 05/18/02 11:49 AM Re: ABOUT TIME! [Re: chickpea]
VJR Offline
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Registered: 12/14/01
Posts: 588
Loc: USA
You wrote:
>>HINDUS LIVING IN NON-HINDU MAJORITY STATES OF INDIA HAVE THEIR LIVES AT STAKE>>
What are those States in India? Could you plz write them down for me here? Because I was under the wrong impression that all states are hindus living areas.

Thanks.


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#5443 - 05/19/02 04:06 AM Re: ABOUT TIME! [Re: VJR]
chickpea Offline
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Registered: 04/16/02
Posts: 23
Loc: mm...
MR.VJR , like i said before, from recent sources there are 5 or 6 states WHERE HINDUS DO NOT HOLD MAJORITY IN TERMS OF % OF POPULATION.
These are Jammu and Kashmir, the Punjab and all the North-Eastern states of Tripura, Meghalaya, Mizoram, Nagaland.
I will not count the Punjab as a threat to Hindus because the dominating religion is Sikhism which is "on terms" with Hindu dharma. Jammu and Kashmir we alreayd know about; hundreds of thousands of hindus either killed, converted or told to migrate.
The North-Eastern States are all Xtian majority, Xtian ruled, Xtian dominated.....the tribal hindus who have not been forced to convert YET are not allowed to celebrate Hindu festivals in public and the National Liberation Front of Tripura goes round with guns protecting their "Xtian" dharma WITH SUPPORT OF LOCAL CHURCHES AND PRIESTS and no real media attention


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#5444 - 05/19/02 01:59 PM Re: ABOUT TIME! [Re: chickpea]
VJR Offline
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Posts: 588
Loc: USA
Hi There chickpea! This is VJR, an American Hindu Mother here.

Thanks for your note in response to my question earlier.

I was under the impression that those states that yo have mentioned also harbor people who are buddhists as well, not just hindus who are basically illiterate and tribal in origin.

Am I right? Esp in Megalaya, Tripura and Nagaland States?
kashmir Hindus have been put thru hell from what I have heard from moghul empire time. Govt of India must reienforce very strict rules of law enforcement there and curb those activities, involving any forceful or coerced conversions, whether it is doen directly or indirectly now.

The way they can do it is to get rid of Sonia Gandhi first, as she is a church lady, who married a hindu and bringing bad names to hindus now. She is not really there for any uplift of any hindus or any Indian people to begin w IMHO. Now that catholic church is in crises, she may be working all the more hard to convert people in the name of politics etc. I really do not believe a word of what she will say esp when I heard that she is anti-hindu thesedays. Hindus over there have to make up their mind and work together to put a stop to this right now.


Top
#5445 - 06/20/02 02:37 AM Murshidabad: Conversion drive gaining momentum [Re: Vishal_Agarwal]
Vishal_Agarwal Offline
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Posts: 1572
Loc: India
LITERACY WITCH-HUNT IN NAME OF CONVERSION

FROM SUNANDO SARKAR AND ALAMGIR HOSSAIN

Behrampore, June 19:
Not even literacy campaigns and flood-relief societies are safe from the
reconversion efforts of the VHP-RSS combine - if recent events in Murshidabad
are any indication - leading prominent church leaders to see the larger
ripple-effects of Gujarat in the district.
The Telegraph had reported last month the campaign by the Sangh Parivar
to wean away Christians, especially tribals, "back to the Hindu fold".

"Over the past few weeks, reconversion efforts and plans to disrupt
development projects have become more and more blatant," feels Don Bosco Yuva
Jyoti director Father N.T. Scaria. Just two examples of what the VHP-RSS
combine has done to two projects taken up by the Catholic church in
collaboration with the administration will suffice to show what he means, he
said.

One is the Adivasi Development Society, a project undertaken by the
church along with the district administration to reach literacy to backward and
tribal-populated areas in Nabagram and Sagardighi belts of the district. Soon
after its inception, tribals - even those who have not converted to
Christianity - started receiving threats to back away from the project.

Number two on the combine's hate-list was the Adivasi Sahara Committee, a
similar project with similar ends in sight. This project is also losing steam,
say local-level managers too afraid to be quoted.

"Shuddhikaran (purification) ceremonies were organised - where every
Hindu had to apologise for joining the church-mooted project and then had
gobarjal (cow dung-mixed water) sprinkled on him - in the entire
Nabagram-Sagardighi belt to exorcise the 'evil spirits'," one of the project's
leaders in a Nabagram village said.

However, VHP leaders are unapologetic about the ceremonies. "We are now
much more alert to the church's machinations and the ceremonies were a means to
show the simple and easily-gullible tribals where they had erred," a senior VHP
spokesperson based in Behrampore said.

Church leaders have always targeted the tribals of Murshidabad - "poor
and uneducated" - feels Ajay Thakur, the president of VHP's unit at Brahmapur
(not Behrampore, considered to be an anglicised version). "Jobs and financial
security used to act as baits for these tribals," he said.

But not any more. Referring to the reconversions now going on in the
entire district, Thakur said it was just a visible manifestation of Christians,
now wiser to the church's "falsehoods", coming back to the fold. "More Hindus
who converted to Christianity are going to come back to us," he claimed.

Other VHP leaders said the organisation had decided to shun the big
reconversion melas of the past. "They bring only negative publicity from
'secular' newspapers which have secret tie-ups with the West-funded church,"
one of them explained, referring to the widespread pillorying in the media of
the mass reconversion drives in Malda and Rampurhat in the last decade.

"Instead, we have decided to do a 365-day campaign in the villages,
taking the help of everyone (from Hindu neighbours to village ojhas) in the
process," a VHP leader said.

The church, said Father Scaria, was watching the scene with apprehension.

The "tactical shift" made it more difficult for the church to get wind of
what was happening, another Catholic church leader in Nabagram said.

"Whenever we object, we are asked to shut up and stop interfering in
people's personal affairs," he added.

The move, admit both Hindu and church leaders, is paying rich dividends.
Both differ on various points but concur on two facts: one, that the number of
Hindus converting to Christianity is rapidly declining; and, two, that the
number of Christians - especially in the tribal belt - reconverting to Hinduism
is rapidly increasing.


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#5446 - 06/20/02 02:38 AM Orissa: 143 Tribals convert to Hinduism [Re: Vishal_Agarwal]
Vishal_Agarwal Offline
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Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 1572
Loc: India
Orissa Christian Tribals Reconvert to Hinduism
Source:
http://www.newsonweb.com/chennaionline/newsitemnew.asp?NEWSID=%7B8DC64DDB%2D
DC36%2D4CF2%2D9456%2DB5BF0307472A%7D&CATEGORYNAME=NATL

ROURKELA, ORISSA, June 18, 2002: Altogether 143 Christian tribals, belonging
to 47 families, have been reconverted to Hinduism at an Atma Suddhi Yagna
ceremony held at Tainsar village under Brahmanitaranga police station, about
30 km from here, police said. The ceremony to mark the reconversion of the
tribals, belonging to the Oram community, was organized by the Vishwa Hindu
Parishad (VHP) on Sunday. The tribals, many among them women, attended the
yagna after a bath and were provided new clothes. VHP sources said the
tribals, who were Hindus, had been converted to Christianity and were
returning to their original faith.

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#5447 - 06/29/02 03:08 AM Conversions gathering Momentum in Orissa [Re: Vishal_Agarwal]
Vishal_Agarwal Offline
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Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 1572
Loc: India
Title : Thousands of Hindus return to Hindu fold through VHP efforts
Author : News
Publication : Mumbai Tarun Bharat (Marathi) - Translation
Date : June 26, 2002

Babuneshwar, 25th - Vishwa Hindu Parishad has been successful in
bringing about 5000 Adivasis converted to Christianity back into Hindu
religion in Sundergarh District in Orissa over an year or so.

Recently, a reconversion ceremony was held at Tainsar village which was
arranged by the Raurkela Division of VHP on 16th June when 143 Adivasis
from Oram, Munda and Khadia tribes had returned to Hinduism. These
reconverted persons had given an affidavit that they were voluntarily
converting to Hinduism. The local leader of VHP Shri Achutanand Kar
told that most of the reconverted Adivasis are from Kalio, Masupali,
Bireeda and Tainsar villages. Last year more than 2,500 Adivasis
returned to Hinduism from 15 villages. He was getting messages in the
local VHP Office that many more Christian families have expressed their
desire to return to Hinduism.

Mr Kar said that Christian Missionaries have been engaged in a massive
effort for conversion in a number of districts including Sundargarh and
have erected as many as 1100 churches. During the decade 1970-80,
Christian Missionaries had launched a campaign of conversion in
Sundergarh district. Population of Sundergarh District is 20 lakhs and
out of it, the population of Christians is now 3-1/2 lakh. It shows the
increased extent of conversion in this area.

A mobile medical van has been launched to counter the Missionary
functioning in their own style and a number of developmental projects
have been undertaken by VHP. As a result of these measures thousands of
Advasis have returned to the original religion, VHP sources said.

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#5448 - 08/17/02 02:33 AM State of Dalit Christians [Re: Vishal_Agarwal]
Vishal_Agarwal Offline
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Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 1572
Loc: India
http://www.vikatan.com/jv/2002/jul/24072002/jv0304.shtml
STATE OF DALITS CONVERTED TO CHRISTIANITY

Original article in Tamil, appeared in Junior Vikatan dated 24/7/02.

Translation by Krishna

Summary:

Chennai city, Chengalpet district and other surrounding areas within
the Tamil Nadu state are very famous for Christian conversion
activities during the last 50 years. A large number of persons
belonging to the Scheduled tribe communities were converted to
Catholicism with the promise that life will be paradise soon as they
convert to Christianity. Recently, St. Joseph Church in Chengalpet
town was being readied for Golden Jubilee celebrations. Church
officials including Fathers, brothers and sisters started to arrive
at the venue. Suddenly, a mob of at least 1000 people appeared from
nowhere with all sorts of weapons and demanded the closure of the
ceremony with immediate effect. The irony is that those who wanted
to halt this function belong to the very Dalit Christian group f! or
whom the function was organized.

In response to query from the press, these Dalit Christians vent
their anguish in the following words: When we were Dalits, these
Christian fathers promised us moon. They told us that they would
help us to uplift our lives soon after our conversion to
Christianity. Nothing has come to us even after several years. Even
after conversion, our status as Dalits has not changed. We are still
treated as Dalits and we are being discriminated within the Church at
all levels. We get no respect. Under these circumstances, we do not
feel that it makes any sense in continuing as Dalit Christians. We
are thinking of going back ! to Hinduism to regain our rights as
Dalit Hindus.

As Dalits within Hindu religion, we at least had the privilege as
Dalits and were qualified to receive Govt. sponsored social welfare
benefits. Now, with the conversion, we lost the status as well, as
Dalit Christians are not entitled to these benefits. Also, we lost
our status within that religion. In here, we got nothing by being
Dalit Christians. We feel cheated by the Church on all accounts.
Don't you think we have a reason to get agitated?

We [the press] then approached the Church official Mr. Joseph Raj for
his reaction. Mr. Raj said that it is incorrect to make sweeping
generalization that Church discriminates Dalits and treats them
differently. It is sad when that happens. You see, we cannot do
much about it. We are helpless. The clear-cut directive has to come
from the above.

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#5449 - 03/09/04 10:36 AM 750 :Christians return to Hindu forld, Organizer, 14 March 2004 [Re: Vishal_Agarwal]
madan Offline
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Registered: 01/16/00
Posts: 1174
Loc: USA
750 Christians return to Hindu fold
Organizer, 14 March 2004

With the efforts of Vishwa Hindu Parishad (VHP) more than 750 Christians recently returned to the Hindu fold. About 650 people belonging to 144 families and 22 villages of Udaipur district in Rajasthan resolved to join their ancestors’ roots at a function held at Richhavar Mata Mandir in Jhadol tehsil on February 29. After performing yajana the saints presented them lockets of Om and pictures of Lord Lakshminarayan. Prominent among those who attended the function included Mahant Murli Manohar Sharan Shastri, Mahant Hariom Sharan of Banswara, Shri Shyamlal Kumawat, president, VHP, Chitaurgarh Prant, administered the Vanvasis the oath of Maharana Pratap that they would not again leave the path of their ancestors, howsoever serious problems they face in their life. VHP Central Dharm Prachar Mantri, Jugal Kishore also spoke on the occasion.

In another function held at Mai village of Kerakat tehsil in Jaunpur district of Uttar Pradesh, more than 100 people belonging to 13 Christian families have returned to the Hindu fold.

The homecoming programme began with Shrishchandra Pathak, the priest, performing yajna in which around 400 people of the village also participated. The Christian families surrendered the Bible and other Christian literature as well as the cross to the RSS Vibhag Pracharak, Anand. Jai Ram Singh, president of Samaj Sanrakshan Samiti and Manoj Kumar, the Village Pradhan presented them lockets of Hanuman, Durga and Shankar and also Hanuman Chalisa.

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#5450 - 03/09/04 03:35 PM Re: State of Dalit Christians [Re: Vishal_Agarwal]
Americanhindu Offline
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Registered: 06/16/02
Posts: 3559
My hubby recently returned back from his Indian trip and told me that in AP and in north, there were several tents put up by christian evengelicals in India for vigorous conversions of those dalit villagers mostly. They paid them in dollars, as they had no time to change them into Indian rupees! Esp in AP, where lambadis are there.

Dalits who have become christians, are not rich or have become white or are able to survive w/o spoon feeding from these missionaries! It is not a solution to uplift them or make them connect w god!

what do ya think?
_________________________
I love hinduism the best. MAY Almighty BRAHMAN bless you all every day!

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#5451 - 10/25/04 10:36 PM Re: Christians Converting to Hinduism [Re: Vishal_Agarwal]
bricmpt Offline
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Registered: 10/25/04
Posts: 9
Loc: The mountians of Appalachia, u...
if i may contribute my veiws to this thread: i can speak only as a US Christian. i live in an area of the US that is considered strongly Christian. i was raised as a christian by my family. most persons in the US are not Christians, they are Capitalists and Hollywood is their church. Jesus said that "It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the gates of heaven." Also "Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth." Americans are, as a whole, greedy and proud. There are less real Christians in the US than ever. As far as converting to Hinduism, I have seen more and more eastern teachings in our entertainment as the years pass. I wonder if you have heard of what is referred to as the "New Age" belief system that is common in the US?
_________________________
moving towards unity

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#5452 - 01/18/05 01:08 AM Re: Conversions gathering Momentum in Orissa [Re: Vishal_Agarwal]
Hindu Freethinker Offline
stranger

Registered: 01/07/05
Posts: 16
Nomoskar!

I am just wondering the people, who converted back to Hinduism were forced to do so...

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#5453 - 04/13/05 08:54 PM Re: Conversions gathering Momentum in Orissa [Re: Hindu Freethinker]
proudvedic Offline
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Registered: 04/06/05
Posts: 285
Loc: Kerala, India
If a person converts out of Hinduism, he is ignorant of the great of his own religion. And, it will be no wonder he would stick with the new religion for long.

If he is forcibly converted out of hinduism, why not pull him back? We cant seem to follow ethics when the christian missionaries prey like hungry dogs.

New Motto For Hinduism:
All is fair in love and religion.

I beleive we need to have active conversion like other religions even though it is not traditionally there.
_________________________
Jai Shri Ram. Jai Shri Hanuman.

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#5454 - 06/26/05 11:18 PM Re: Christians Converting to Hinduism [Re: Vishal_Agarwal]
levelheaded Offline
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Registered: 11/10/04
Posts: 102
Re: Be competitive.

We do not need any converts to Hinduism. Converts can contribute nothing new to Hinduism/pantheism/omniscience which we do not know about. We have enough spiritual wisdom within Hinduism. Our knowledge of pantheism and spiritual wisdom is indepth. Our knowledge of pantheism and spiritual wisdom is backed by thousands of years of research work. Our knowledge of pantheism and spiritual wisdom is indepth and is second to none by any standards any where in this world. I do not think that converts can contribute anything new to pantheism which we Hindus do not know about. I am god. You are god. Everything is god.

Even if a non-Hindu declares himself a Hindu, it is not a cure-all for him or his family: he still has to face competition, work, earn his keep and feed his family. But if a non-Hindu declares himself a Hindu, then we cannot stop him.

The foundation stone of our view of the universe has something to do with Einstein’s equation E=mc2. Albert Einstein’s equation and quantum mechanics only reconfirmed pantheism/omniscience. Thus Einstein, at least as far as I am concerned, was closer to Hinduism/pantheism/omniscience than Judaism. Hinduism/pantheism offers the convergence of science and religion; and this will be a permanent source of pride for all pantheists. It is impossible to destroy science; and therefore it is impossible to destroy pantheism. No religion in this world can survive the onslaught of science; and likewise, no religion in this world can survive the onslaught of pantheism; and this phenomenon is a permanent source of pride for all pantheists. All Hindus are scientific gods. I am god. You are god. Everything is god. The day Hindus go against science would be the beginning of the end for Hinduism. There is no doubt that we come from monkey. We are primates.

Again, being a pantheist is not enough. Being a pantheist is not a cure-all. You must be COMPETITIVE. It is a competitive world. To survive you must be competitive. Eventually, the objective is to be competitive. To earn recognition, you must achieve. To earn recognition, you must be competitive. By being competitive we Hindus want to achieve economically; and we want to gain recognition by achieving economically. By being competitive we want to make socio-economic gains; and we want to gain recognition that way. Therefore, be competitive.
_________________________
Be profit-maker.* Do not give away goods, services, or ideas free of charge; and do not take goods, services, or ideas free of charge.* Self-defense is an inviolable human right.* Always use condoms*All 6.5 billion of us gods are both buyers and sellers*

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#5455 - 07/06/05 07:12 PM Re: Christians Converting to Hinduism [Re: levelheaded]
DeviSarada Offline
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Registered: 05/30/05
Posts: 207
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Namaste, Levelheaded

I beg to differ with you notion that Hinduism does not need converts.

I am a Christian who converted to Hinduism. I am disappointed that you feel the need to point out that I cannot add anything to the religion. One of the reasons that I found Hinduism attractive is that it does not hound other people to seek converts.

However, I believe you should be more welcoming to those who want to participate in your way of life.

My experience here in Canada has been very warm and welcoming. Is it only in India that I will meet such hostile opposition. You should feel proud that someone on the outside finds your way of life so attractive that they want to join it.
I agree that it would not be good to dilute the religion in any way. I practised the path of Hinduism for 11 years before I felt that I was sufficiently knowledgeable to make such a sacred commitment.

Here are some statistics to show that we need to accept more sincere Hindu converts.

Religion Membership % of World Population

Christianity 2,039 million 32% (dropping)
Islam 1,226 million 19% (growing)
Hinduism 828 million 13% (stable)
No religion 775 million 12% (dropping)
Chinese folk 390 million 6%
Buddhism 364 million 6% (stable)

If you look at the statistics and you evaluate the situation that Hindiusm is in, it would be very good for Hindus to welcome anyone who sincerely wishes to follow our way of life. In my experience, I have always been welcomed warmly by people in any Hindu environment.

However, I have become aware that some Hindus are not willing to welcome newcomers. They
would be well advised to rethink their positions. Converts have a lot to offer, perhaps not in the way of knowledge, for they seek the knowledge that Hinduism provides, but in terms of numbers and continuuing success of the way of life. I agree that converts must follow the philosophy as it exists and not try to change it.

There are many pseudo-Hindu organizations in the West which I believe can do much harm to Sanatana Dharma by misrepresenatation. Iskcon and the HimalyanAcademy are both examples of Hindu organizations that recognize the importance of converts and welcome them. The Ramakrishna Order based in Kolakut is also open to teaching non-Hindus.
_________________________
Om Shanti, Devi Sarada

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#5456 - 07/06/05 08:42 PM Re: Christians Converting to Hinduism [Re: DeviSarada]
openSky Offline
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Registered: 10/07/04
Posts: 185
Hindu gurus teach all who are willing. Hinduism and Sanatan Dharma is a non-sectarian value system. Conversion is not only unnecessary but is a bit contradictory to the spiritual freedom advocated by it.

As a human being, as a plant, as an animal or even as a stone; everything is already accepted as part and parcel of the divinity. One can be hindu the moment one wants to honor this Dharma and no formal conversion should be necessary.

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#5457 - 07/06/05 10:43 PM Re: Christians Converting to Hinduism [Re: DeviSarada]
dharma_defender Offline
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Registered: 03/31/05
Posts: 199
Quote:

Is it only in India that I will meet such hostile opposition.




Don't think that way. People will probably be even more accepting there than in the U.S. or Canada. At least that is my experience. One thing I like about India is that people generally "worry" more about the things they should be worrying about than on unimportant stuff unlike the U.S. Here in the U.S., it seems to be written into the culture for people to consistently analyize what everyone else is up to. In India, they'll either like you or not care. Strangers will smile at you, talk to you, and even invite you to their homes, and maybe even lend you money if you need it. Try that in the U.S. or Canada. Look at a stranger too much and they shoot you! If you haven't been to India and are a Hindu but a non-Desi, going to India may be a liberating and educational experience for you.

Quote:

However, I have become aware that some Hindus are not willing to welcome newcomers.




Because some Hindus are stupid. Sorry to be blunt but you know it is Kali Yuga. Most Hindus that I've met are Hindu by name only. They can't even tell you one sentence describing what the Gita might be about. They know less about Hinduism than someone off the street would simply searching Google for 10 minutes. I find it quite the opposite where people in India are far more spiritual and dharmic as well as accepting and that people in the Western world are far more materialistic, adharmic, and overly critical. This is regardless of religion. Some of the most spiritual people I've seen in India are Muslims! Religion is packaging only. It is what is inside that counts. Namaskaar.

Quote:

Iskcon and the HimalyanAcademy are both examples of Hindu organizations that recognize the importance of converts and welcome them.




Yes but both of these groups violate the dharma in other ways. The former with their fundamentalism and the latter with their bizarre conversion process that is not scripturally based.

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#5458 - 07/07/05 11:20 AM Re: Christians Converting to Hinduism [Re: dharma_defender]
DeviSarada Offline
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Registered: 05/30/05
Posts: 207
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Quote:



Quote:

Iskcon and the HimalyanAcademy are both examples of Hindu organizations that recognize the importance of converts and welcome them.




Yes but both of these groups violate the dharma in other ways. The former with their fundamentalism and the latter with their bizarre conversion process that is not scripturally based.





Thanks for pointing that out. I would not disagree with you on that score.

Also, the other points you made are well taken. As I have said, I have personally always been welcomed warmly by any Hindu whom I have met or in any gathering here in Toronto.

But the main point is, and I believe you will agree with me, that (although as Opensky says, and I paraphrase, that formal conversion is unnecessary.) formal conversion to Hinduism is necessary

a) to counteract the aggressive tactics of Christians and Muslims

b) to ensure that those calling themselves Hindus are at least attempting to follow the Dharma. This is to avoid at least some of the distortion of Hinduism as I see it happenning here in North America.
_________________________
Om Shanti, Devi Sarada

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#5459 - 07/11/05 05:03 AM Re: Christians Converting to Hinduism [Re: DeviSarada]
dharma_defender Offline
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Quote:

But the main point is, and I believe you will agree with me, that (although as Opensky says, and I paraphrase, that formal conversion is unnecessary.) formal conversion to Hinduism is necessary...




Part of Kali Yuga sees an increase in the use of labels. That isn't in and of itself bad but it is being abused. I do call myself a Hindu and consider myself a Hindu which is of course a label. However, this can be a useful label since there are other religious paths and it simplifies long explanations. Since there are different paths, it is a way of describing the one I adhere to. The problem arises when the labels are abused to create an us vs. them mentality and when they are used to institutionalize something that need not be. So if one calls himself a Hindu, he should be a Hindu and nothing more. Don't just say it but do it. I'm saying this point now so that it makes sense with the next points:

Quote:

...to counteract the aggressive tactics of Christians and Muslims




Christians have always been aggressive at conversions but I haven't seen it with Muslims. There was one case where a Muslim asked if I wanted to convert but that was after associating with him for some time and mentioning that I found some similarities between certain things. Of course this is a non-confrontational person and he literally doesn't care what religion anyone follows. He is tied up with getting the rest of the Muslims to shape up just like I am often with the Hindus.

As to combating any perceived problem with another group, we should combat it but with the proper mindset. In Kali Yuga we have no Kshatriya culture and few Kshatriyas who can actually do anything. Nonetheless, we should treat the problem people as individuals and not as a collective. Not all Christians or Muslims are trouble for Hindus. Even if 99% were, I would like to give the 1% the credit of being good people. Anyway this is an issue I have tried to figure out how to fix.

A solution I have proposed is to simply treat it as a case-by-case basis. The first step is that I don't really care what religion a person follows. I don't go around asking unless it is a subject being discussed and I feel it is worth asking. When I am around Muslims or Christians who know I'm Hindu, religion should still be a non-issue. So what I do is try to respect the good in all. If religion is a topic, I will respect their choice to follow the path they want to follow and expect that the same be returned to me. On some cases, non-confrontational dialogues can continue where we actually find certain things in agreement between faiths. Or even disagreements but with common angles. Example: We all believe in God but that we all interpret God differently. So what happens more times than not is instead of making enemies, we make alliances. This is a way to build positive Hindu-Muslim and Hindu-Christian relations. However, it takes responsibility and removal of ego on all sides. In my experiences, most Muslims and Christians either don't care that I'm Hindu or they acutally find it interesting for the number of Hindus is small in the U.S. and it is seen as quite "different" in American culture. Obviously Christianity is the majority religion but Islam is now the second largest religion in the U.S. I'm not sure what is exactly happening but three or four years ago, you'd never see Muslims (visible by women's headscarves) and now you see them everywhere and everyday. Anyway, that's a topic for another conversation.

Last but not least, I show respect up until they show disrespect. If it is some stranger, I obviously ignore them. If is a door preacher or street preacher I either go on and ignore them or ask them to leave my property. One rule worth remembering is not to argue or discuss anything with preachers. You will not win points with them and cannot build positive relations. This is not a regular conversation between a Christian and a Hindu. They are preaching on a mission and thus it is a one-way conversation. Ignore these people and if they are belligerant, call the police. I don't know about other countries but the cops will remove irritating preachers quickly if enough people are being disturbed. As to Muslims, they don't seem to preach. I haven't seen Muslims preach anywhere regardless of the countries I've been in. So if a Muslim is argumentive about Hinduism, it is best to ignore them. If you have to work around these people then you have to confront them and ask them to leave you alone. If they are belligerant, complain to the boss if it is at work and if they are bothering you at your house, call the cops. Regardless, I have never seen Muslims cause any problems with Hindus in the U.S. probably also because they are a minority.

Sorry for the long explanation but to summarize, Hindus who know what dharma is should waste little if any time arguing it with adharmic people. Muslims and Christians can be dharmic if they are following their dharma and not bothering you (and if they are even respecting you). But when they are causing trouble, it is best to ignore it and ask them to go away. Bad people love to pull good people down with them and when good people start arguing it tends to make them angry and thus the bad win as the good do get pulled down due to wasting time and becoming enraged. And it is really rare for a Muslim or Christian at least in my experiences to become so bothersome that they get violent and force you to deal with it in a serious manner. If they do, then simply use your judgment and make the best decision. I know of one case where someone pulled a gun on two Christian missionaries who forced their way into his house. They left and the problem was solved. Anyway enough said about that.

Quote:

to ensure that those calling themselves Hindus are at least attempting to follow the Dharma. This is to avoid at least some of the distortion of Hinduism as I see it happenning here in North America.




This is even more tricky than the previous problem. Again, I would still treat this as a case-by-case basis and an individual rather than group thing. We already know that most Hindus aren't following dharma just like most Muslims and Christians aren't following theirs either. Dharmic Hindus probably stand a greater chance of being bothered by adharmic Hindus than by Christians or Muslims.

The reason is that Hindus don't go to mosques or churches where Muslims and Christians congregate and thus don't get involved in the politics of those institutions. So the squabbles will be between Muslims against Muslims and Christians against Christians. The same above still pretty much holds. Most adharmic Hindus should simply be ignored. We dharmic Hindus have nothing to prove to adharmic people. If they practice karmas out of their own freewill that lead them to the hell realms, that is their tough luck.

As to temples where Hindus go to congregate, I just participate in whatever pujas are offered, donate whatever I feel is right, associate with people I feel have a higher consciousness level, pay my respects to God, take prasad, and then leave. If you can do that in today's temples, you are lucky. Most temples today seem to demand donations either through constantly asking or through actually charging fees for basic services. Even in some temples in India, you cannot even see the deities without paying money. There are really only two options for such adharma: either you pick up a gun and shoot all the adharmic people or you simply stop going. The best solution obviously is to quit going. It's sad but this is Kali Yuga. You cannot teach or train adharmic people when they become too far gone on the wrong track. In any other yuga, they would be exiled or executed. In Kali Yuga, the roles are reversed where evil and ignorance are the norms and good and wisdom are the exceptions.

In extreme cases where such evildoers are causing harm to other Hindus or non-Hindus, then you can confront them. Even then it is best to tell any perceived victim to stay as far away from the trouble and tell the trouble one time to stay away from the victim. If someone is doing something illegal or violent, then do what you need to do.

So to sum up the last point, Hindus should treat this as an individual thing. When you find similar dharmic qualities in others, then embrace them and associate (regardless of religion they follow). But I wouldn't even bother associating with adharmic people in the first place. This means you should only have a few close friends. At least this is the case in the U.S. India seems to have a lot less nonsense than elsewhere I've been in terms of morality and decency. To save your own soul you have to ignore them. Of course the Kshatriya part of me wants me to confront everyone and try to change everyone or stop them but it never works and is usually unreasonable and pulls me down to their level. You've got to simply follow your heart. There will be cases where a Hindu or non-Hindu causes so much harmful nonsense, that you will have to confront them. I almost had to stab a drunk person one time. Welcome to the world of insanity.

Since everyone minus 1% is crazy, I just drop the labels most times. I know a few Hindus, few Christians, and few Muslims who are very wonderful people. The rest of the people can just keep sinking in the quicksand for all I care as long as they leave me and the other "Brahmin"-level people alone.

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#5460 - 07/11/05 11:39 AM Re: Christians Converting to Hinduism [Re: dharma_defender]
DeviSarada Offline
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Posts: 207
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Namaste, Dharma Defender.

I found your post to be very interesting. In general I agree with the gist of it.

Dharmic people can be found every where and a all religions.
Likewise adharmic people.

You are right. It is best to seek the company of dharmic people and avoid the adharmic.

Every person will eventually reap the rewards of his/her actions without us interfering.
_________________________
Om Shanti, Devi Sarada

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#5461 - 07/16/05 09:05 PM Re: Californian converts to Hinduism [Re: Vishal_Agarwal]
Tatian Offline
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Registered: 07/15/05
Posts: 17
Hinduism is religion and the choice of people who probably only new religion as before conversion. Religion being salvation by works on one's own strength.

Spiritual people too can give up. With pressure causing doubt and attacks they rebel. The don't receive and give by faith. They cool off. I almost gave up.

Religion isn't Jesus work in the first place. Spirituality means dependance and faith which requires no doubt, heart hunger and petition without double mindedness amidst Satan's attacks in one's thoughts, without single minded hunger and petition one dies inside.

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#5462 - 09/24/05 11:50 AM Ex-Hindus doubt christianity; church scared [Re: Tatian]
Tamil Hindu Offline
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Posts: 390
Loc: UK (Originally E.Sri Lanka)
Andhra Cyclone: Conversion Guilt Is Talk Of The Town

www.christianaggression.o...&type=news

Rama Rao
Vijayawada

The recent cyclone in Andhra Pradesh, India has played havoc causing immense loss of life and property. It has already resulted in the death of more than 60 people, several thousands injured and significant damage to property.

Apart from the immediate deaths and destruction, local people are also worried about the long-term effects of the cyclone. It is estimated that millions of people along the coastal regions could end up in dire poverty because of the damage from the cyclone.

Even as they are trying to figure out the extent of the losses suffered, even people living in the plains, who until recently considered themselves immune to such calamities, are starting to wonder how they became victims of this tragedy. They are looking for reasons beyond those offered by the government and the scientific community.

Many victims say that all these events are due to their losing the blessings of their Gods and inviting their wrath because of the sins they have committed. Some have started to wonder if their conversion to Christianity could have led to their losing the grace of local deities, many of whom are considered to be guardians of the villages from precisely these kinds of calamities. They note that Christian missionaries required them to abuse Hindu Gods and village deities as a pre-condition to receiving money for converting to Christianity. An old lady lamented in Telugu, *"Dabbuki kakkurthi padi devullani tittamu; ippudu emayyindo chudayya, tinadaniki ginjalu kooda levu, cheesina papalu oorikene povu"* (Out of greed we converted and abused our Gods; now look what has happened, we are left without even food. We are taught a lesson for our sins and crimes).

The sentiment appears to be prevalent across all the affected districts of Andhra Pradesh and is particularly strong in temple towns such as Rajamundry and Bhadrachalam. In Eluru, which saw major destruction from the cyclone, converts to Christianity are blaming each other for breaking the gigantic Hanuman statue and inviting the wrath of the "monkey God." The situation is not that much different in Rama's temple town, Bhadrachalam. Many converts have thrown away chains with crosses and have started wearing chains with pendants of 'Veeranjaneya,' the form of Hanuman as a protector of good and destroyer of evil.

Local pastors and church leaders are worried about the effect of the cyclone and the resulting soul-searching engaged in by the villagers. They are worried that people may return to their native faith, Hinduism and nullify the millions of dollars and years of effort they have poured into evangelization activities in these villages. One pastor claimed that the community is so angry that not even one person may return to his church. He is keeping indoors as he is afraid to venturing into the village. Other sources indicate that the local pastors are turning to their church authorities for guidance in handling the situation.

A senior church member said that high level meetings are going on between senior church members and their superiors in the USA regarding the cyclone relief. One strategy emerging from these meetings seems to be to target only so-called "un-reached" regions and going for mass conversion using relief material as the bait. A church consultant based in US suggested that missionaries should totally avoid regions with some church presence. He fears that in these regions the converts would demand extra money as a fallout of cyclone and convert back to Hinduism or Islam if their demands are not met. He also suggested that pastors should leave those regions immediately and flock to the "un-reached" regions so as not to raise any suspicion among their communities. It seems that he is a strong proponent of 'No-extra-payments after conversion' rule.

Similar incidents were visible in the aftermath of the tsunami in Tamil Nadu. People stopped going to churches after it was found that areas dominated by Christian converts were the ones worst affected by the tsunami whereas water just surrounded Hindu temples leaving the premises dry. During the tsunami, the Our Lady of Good Health church, the famous Catholic pilgrim centre in Velankanni turned into a burial ground. Subsequently people have abandoned this church and consider it as a cursed place as it was built over an existing temple.

The church's spin doctors are however working overtime to try and use the human tragedy to further the missionary agenda. Employing the same strategy that was used during the recent December tsunami, missionaries have been preaching to locals that the cyclone struck because people did not convert to Christianity. Rev. Kim Hong-do of Seoul's Kumnan Methodist Church, the largest Methodist church in Korea, gave a sermon on January 2 in which he said that the victims of December 26 earthquake and the ensuing tsunami that devastated much of South Asia were killed because they didn't believe in Jesus.

------------------------------------------------------------

NOTE: See how these shameless christian pastors look to their white masters in America for guidance. Their only desire is to enslave all Hindus to the jesus cult.

Hindus should aggressively confront these evil christian trouble-makers and drive them out. Let all good hindus spread the greatness of their faith. The christians have a deeply flawed philosophy but they cover their errors in money and gifts. This is their shamelessness.
_________________________
Hindu and Not ashamed to say it!

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#5463 - 10/04/05 02:42 PM 3,500 Christians embrace Hinduism in Etah [Re: Tamil Hindu]
aryan3 Offline
seeker
*****

Registered: 06/15/04
Posts: 62
Loc: Canada
Hindu News Headlines for October 03, 2005
3,500 Christians embrace Hinduism in Etah
2005-10-03 Published by Sify.com Gathered by Press Trust of India
ETAH,OCTOBER 3: As many as 3,500 Christians from 81 villages adopted Hinduism in Etah on Sunday. After a 'yagna', the converts had food together and vowed to serve the Hindu community at a programme organised by the Dharm Jagran Samiti. Yogi Aditya Nath, MP, who was also present at the function, said those who have converted to Hinduism should be given proper regard by the society.


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#5464 - 10/05/05 09:23 PM Re: Ex-Hindus doubt christianity; church scared [Re: Tamil Hindu]
tantrikgoddess Offline
initiate
***

Registered: 09/13/05
Posts: 106
This is hilarious!

They converted to Christianity for material reasons, now they want to turn back to Hinduism for material reasons. Nowhere do I see any mention here of inner inspiration, higher calling or the like.

It's all based on the body. I will get money/food, so let me be a christian. Or, so many bodies died due offending local gods, let me worship those gods again.

And the pastor telling people that the tsunami and floods hit coz enough people were not converting to Christianity?


So what's the explanation for the recent hurricanes in USA where most of them were Christians of some sort?

These people need to "convert" to science before they take up any religion at all.

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#5465 - 10/07/05 03:53 PM Re: Christians Converting to Hinduism [Re: dharma_defender]
tantrikgoddess Offline
initiate
***

Registered: 09/13/05
Posts: 106
Dharma Defender, I don't know what part of America or Canada you have been to, but all I ever met in either of those two countries were friendly, open-minded people. If North Americans spend their time analysing everything other people do with their lives, while Indians mind their own business, like you say, why is it that I was able to rent hotel rooms, an apartment, and a house in a neigborhood full of people, with my partner, with no questions asked, strange looks or gossip, but in India was unable to get a hotel room with him even in New Delhi, because we were not married? And all the people in the lobby were "chi-chi-ing" us?

Your analysis is simply not true. Can you tell me where it is in India where people don't keep an eye on the movements of their neighbors? Especially where they don't keep on eye on the movements of the women? Where in India is a woman not talked about if she is a divorcee or if she has a boyfriend or even a few frequent male friends of the platonic nature?

Devi, although it is true that you will be accepted as a Hindu by most Hindus in India, you may find some cultural un-acceptance meaning that Indians tend to be very xenophobic and the more small-town traditional ones, quite suspicious of foriegners and foriegn ways. This is simply due to not travelling the world and being exposed to other ways of life. As a woman, you will have added pressure to act in certain ways deemed fit for a "religous woman".

And do be careful when riding public transportation like trains, busses, etc, or when walking down crowded streets.

Look up "eve-teasing" on google and you will understand what I'm talking about.

But other than these things, India is a colorful, exotic, and exciting place to be in. You can both learn alot from Indians, and also teach them alot.

The gain will be from both sides if you see yourself not only as a student, but also someone from whom the Indian people can learn.



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#5466 - 10/09/05 11:03 AM Re: Christians Converting to Hinduism [Re: tantrikgoddess]
dharma_defender Offline
initiate
**

Registered: 03/31/05
Posts: 199
Your post is nonsense. I have been to both large cities as well as the extreme rural countryside of India. People are excessively friendly and talkative. It is even noticable in route to India from America. As you switch planes going farther from the U.S. and closer to India the diet is better and the people are nicer. As you go the other direction, the food gets worse and the people keep to themselves. You are out of your mind if you think it is culturally accepted in the U.S. to strike up conversations with strangers on public buses, trains, planes, or even on foot. Or try doing that in a restaurant in the U.S. In India, on the other hand, people are ever-ready to meet someone new and usually have stories to share.

Additionally, Indians show quite a curiousity toward foreigners mainly because they look different. It seems the xenophobic person is YOU. Almost everything bad you describe about India not only is untrue it is exactly true about America! Maybe you are in the wrong town in India but again everything you are describing is the case with the U.S. and not India. You can walk down a street at 3 AM in India and nobody will care. Try doing that in the U.S. and every dog within 10 km will bark, every neighbor will look out their windows, and then the police will come to talk to you and ask you where you are going and why you are going there. I've been to many places in the U.S. and India and it is only in the U.S. that people seem huddled in fear and paranoia as to whether or not their next-door neighbor is a criminal or a terrorist. Again you cannot walk down the street or sit in a public park in the U.S. to do meditation or simply enjoy the weather without the police, barking dogs, and fearful people disturbing you. In India, they either don't care or they join you in the fun.

As to your statements about women in India, these are also ridiculous. You don't have women in India running around half-naked in the streets and you don't have the culture promoting women to be sex objects. That is unlike America where women are expected to dress and act like flesh on two legs. Also in India there are women's compartments on trains as well as separate lines for women to help combat "eve-teasing." You don't see that in the U.S. where it is so written in American culture for women to be constantly monitored for their sex-appeal that they soon no longer notice.

Last but not least, your statements about Hinduism are also false. Indian Hindus are generally more understanding of a "foreigner" following the same religion than American Hindus are of a non-desi doing the same. That is because Indian Hindus actually follow Hinduism with sincerety to some degree wheras American Hindus not only know nothing at all about Hinduism they don't even follow it! American Hindus are chowing down hamburgers and watching trash TV and then only paying lip-service to the faith. This is hardly even stereotyping as it is true with almost 100% of NRIs in America. They care more about their cars and TVs than they do about God-Consciousness.

Once again, you are full of anti-Hindu propaganda.

One more add-on: Because Indians are poorer, they have less of an opportunity to travel abroad. I gather that those who get enough money to do so appreciate the opportunity. This is unlike Americans most of whom do have that opportunity at some point in their lives instead choose never to go abroad to a far-away and different place because they believe the fear and propaganda the TV tells them: that these "third-world" nations are "backward and dangerous." Most Americans who do take this opportunity find out that quite the opposite is true: many of these "evil" or "backward" nations are much more friendly, there's much less red-tape in daily matters, and statistically there is even less crime. America is one of the most crime-ridden countries in the world if not THE number one.

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#5467 - 12/11/05 02:17 AM Re: Christians Converting to Hinduism [Re: dharma_defender]
desikadasan Offline
stranger

Registered: 12/10/05
Posts: 8
JAI SRI RAM
hi Defender,
I support!

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#5468 - 12/22/05 01:15 AM Re: Christians Converting to Hinduism [Re: desikadasan]
nekozuki Offline
wanderer

Registered: 12/18/05
Posts: 26
Loc: Louisiana
I can say a lot for America. This place is dangerous, very dangerous. My grandmother got held at gunpoint two years ago during Thanksgiving week. They only took her car thank God. America may be a free country(though that's up for debate) but it's the most dangerous place to be.

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#5469 - 02/28/06 01:04 AM Re: Christians Converting to Hinduism [Re: tantrikgoddess]
chakradhari Offline
seeker

Registered: 02/23/06
Posts: 54
Loc: NJ,USA
Quote:

Dharma Defender, I don't know what part of America or Canada you have been to, but all I ever met in either of those two countries were friendly, open-minded people. If North Americans spend their time analysing everything other people do with their lives, while Indians mind their own business, like you say, why is it that I was able to rent hotel rooms, an apartment, and a house in a neigborhood full of people, with my partner, with no questions asked, strange looks or gossip, but in India was unable to get a hotel room with him even in New Delhi, because we were not married? And all the people in the lobby were "chi-chi-ing" us?




well if you say what north americans are like, atleast not many USA residents dont know their neighbours well. i am unable to agree what you say by americans spend time trying to know others. on the other hands indians are lil nosy and go out of their way and talk to neighbours. i am not criticising either way of living.

you have been looked upon in India because you may be a caucasian. if you are an indian then i would say it was just your feeling that they are looking at you like that .

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#5470 - 03/20/06 08:20 PM Re: Christians Converting to Hinduism [Re: nekozuki]
M_M Offline
stranger

Registered: 03/19/06
Posts: 4
Quote:

I can say a lot for America. This place is dangerous, very dangerous. My grandmother got held at gunpoint two years ago during Thanksgiving week. They only took her car thank God. America may be a free country(though that's up for debate) but it's the most dangerous place to be.




What BS. America is the most dangerous place to be? Just because your grandmother got held up...you want to exterpolate these anacdotal experience to the entire USA?

you know..how many gals get harrased and raped in N.Delhi. Hindu's respect for women....is a sight to behold in N.Delhi.

I hope you never come here..and if you are here..get out.

I am Indian and live here in the US. Majority of the people here are wonderful. Indians and Americans ( and Canadians) can get along very well almost all the time. culturally and otherwise. We both are pretty open and inquisitive towards one another..unlike Europeans.

I agree about the Aggresive Christian outreach and conversion. Everything else...is almost fine here.


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#5471 - 06/07/06 02:51 AM Re: Christians Converting to Hinduism [Re: M_M]
nekozuki Offline
wanderer

Registered: 12/18/05
Posts: 26
Loc: Louisiana
Well, maybe you should check America's crime rate before opening your mouth MM, you obviously live in paradise state or something I don't. Don't just think America is peachy because you live in a certain state that actually gives a crap about it's citizens.

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