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#47876 - 02/15/04 06:29 AM Re: Being a gay Hindu - My first step towards freedom ***** [Re: Shaivite]
asokaram Offline
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Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 261
Loc: Denmark
I understand Shaivite, but from most of what I've read, Marik seems very balanced in her responses. What has happened here?

But you shouldn't be afraid to respond to anyone if you feel she, me or anyone is saying something that isn't right.
_________________________
Namaste, Asoka Ram Om Nama Shiva Jaya Durga Ma Oh my dearest Mother by Kashi Ganga, I kiss your fiercely nurturing feet... Hanuman Ki Jay! In this Year of the Monkey...

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#47877 - 02/17/04 03:46 AM Re: Being a gay Hindu - My first step towards freedom [Re: asokaram]
marik Offline
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Registered: 07/06/03
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Namaste Asokaram,

I have read and re-read my posts and your posts, and I have to tell you that I find that my tone, and attitude, and method of delivery were hostile and a little rude. Insensitive even. I regret this and have spent some time in prayer about it, and have fasted and done some small pennance. I hope you will forgive me for my harshness and hostility.

However, I cannot see anything out of line about my questions or requests or observations. They are all valid. Perhaps my clarity was hampered by my hostile tone, so I will re-phrase. Please know that I mean no offense and hold no hostility whatsoever, but only wish to get at the truth and accuracy of the topic. You are most kind to bear with me and I am genuinely grateful to you for that.

Quote:

I just did a quick search on the Internet on the subject and on the author of a paper I'd read. Boy, was I in for a shock when I entered the word "animal homosexual behavior" on a search engine. A lot of weird stuff came up. Very hard to discriminate real from sex sites.

I have a late night meeting to attend in the city, so I have to run. But these two links should be helpful

discussion This is a university discussion board on the subject.


book
This is from the author of a paper I read a while back. It looks like he wrote a book on his findings.

I think also there's a National Geographic or Discovery film on the subject somewhere.





But these really are not much help as sources to give legitimacy to your statement that studies have been done to prove that most of the animal population is homosexual. Actually, I find they are no help at all.

The first, a discussion board, is just that... discussion. Not a study or a finding but opinion only. Sorry, but its not a relevant source. The simile would be if I posted on another board a statement like "dead-man jesus dude is a scarey lie created by Xtians so they can steal our dharma and our IDs" and then list Hindunet.org as the source. See what I mean?

The second, "the author of a paper I read who wrote a book" is not a relevant source. And the link is to Amazon.com! I really don't want to buy the book or even read it; since you said studies were done, I just want to know what studies were done and by what group and where their findings are published. I don't think I can do that by going to Amazon.com and viewing a book for sale. If I am wrong, please tell me how. Maybe the information about the studies and findings is in the part of the book they let you sample?

The third, "a National Geographic or Discovery film on the subject somewhere" is not a source at all, relevant or otherwise.
So,... no sources. I wasn't rejecting your sources in my other post, they just aren't valid sources.

You were saying that animal testing and studies had been done in which the findings indicated that animals were for the most part not heterosexual. If this is true, what studies were done, and by what group, and where are their findings published? I would really like to know.

kindest regards,
marik
_________________________
By cultivating friendliness towards happiness and compassion towards misery, gladness towards virtue and indifference towards vice, the mind becomes pure. -- Patanjali

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#47878 - 02/17/04 05:30 AM Re: Being a gay Hindu - My first step towards freedom [Re: marik]
asokaram Offline
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Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 261
Loc: Denmark
Dear Marik,

It’s no problem. The subject is very sensitive.

I guess what’s hard for me is that on the day you asked for that specific information, I spent the evening finding it for you. The morning of our conversation as I was heading out the door, I provided you with the two sites that you felt didn’t substantiate it well enough. That evening, on Feb. 10, 2004, thread # 39248, I listed three articles that directly dealt with it, from the New York Times, The Telegraph of London, and BBC (genetic research). I asked the sources if I could in total republish these articles here, and I was given that permission provided I place sourcing and copyright info as well, and not change anything in the articles. So I did that in thread # 39416. That took a lot of work on my part. In your comments to me you still haven’t indicated that you’ve read this research. Your comments are still based on the University Biology Board (a source I provided to help you do your own research on the subject’s many points of view) and the link to Dr. Bruce Bagemihl’s book, where he offers in lay language the bulk of his professional research. They were in themselves very valid sources.

To help you even further, below you will find a comprehensive sourcing and research synthesis and synopses on the subject by South Bank University. This one is not copyrighted, so I did not ask for permission to “paste” it here. Now, as with Darwinist theory, evolution, and other “hot” subjects in biology and anthropology and other disciplines, the research and theories suggested by this body of academic work is fiercely contested by religiously-based scientists who may or may not have a bias. I can provide you with their perspectives and counter theories if you wish, but it is extremely time consuming for me to do this. As you know I work enormous hours. Though I have biology and anthropology degrees, my areas of specialty is environmental science, birds, comparative studies of indigenous peoples spiritual culture, and non-linear dynamics of culture (a type of mathematics). And I will soon be adding another PhD in psychology as well, but not directly related to sexuality. What I mean by saying all this is that though I’m not an expert in animal homosexual behavior, I have a strong enough background in allied fields to understand and make intelligent evaluations of others research. What I’ve read about all this makes sense to everything I’ve ever learned in all science. But that is just at the level of raw science.

Spiritually, it makes perfect sense to me. We are all of us journeying home to God. That means that our entire collective history of actions as any sort of being -- animal human or whatever -- from all past lifetimes must be surrendered. Must be processed by becoming honestly aware of our afflictions and offered back to God and Goddess. Must all be made into nothing. To do that we might have to sometimes confront things in us that are hard to accept for whatever reason. Sometimes, it might just be a matter of samskara or it might be a matter of simple pride, if there’s really a difference. Knowledge of science is only helpful to the soul if it used in service to help bring about a climate of Atman awareness. Service to bring light where there is darkness or suffering. If one is trapped in “being a scientist” it is just as much an ego jail as the person trapped in “being a car mechanic.” If the car mechanic can turn her/his work into an offering he or she is as much a servant to God as a Brahman priest who does Puja to the108 names of Mother Durga and is a professor of biology at the local university if he offers all his work to God(dess). It all boils down to ego and for the ego to surrender.

I would so appreciate it if this could be the end of this subject. You have now all the information you need to evaluate and form an opinion on the subject. My advice is not to form an opinion, but just to let this subject go. Surrender it entirely and do what your heart is so good at, help the people you meet here on this Board and in your life

All my love, Asoka


General information
· Bruce Bagemihl, (1999), "Biological Exuberance - Animal Homosexuality and Natural Diversity", Profile Books, 752 pages, ISBN 1861971826 (hardcover).
o Biologist proves animals are just as queer as folk by Steve Farrar in The Sunday Times, 6th. June, 1999, page 12. "A detailed survey of sexual behaviour in the animal kingdom has shown that homosexuality is as natural as heterosexuality. Over 300 species of mammal and bird have been shown to exhibit a range of homosexual behaviour."
"Dr Bruce Bagemihl, a biologist in Seattle, America, who spent 10 years compiling the study, believes this behaviour is firm evidence that not all animal sexual activity revolves around procreation. 'Animal homosexuality is a rich and multifaceted phenomenon that is at least as complex and varied as heterosexuality - the lives of 'queer' animals are far more diverse than we could ever have imagined,' he said."
"Bagemihl has gained his insights from research into extensive zoological studies dating back two centuries. These record an enormous variety of behaviour patterns, including bisexual activities as well as some that are exclusively homosexual."
"Some animals seem particularly predisposed towards homosexuality.
§ Most male bottlenose dolphins pair off with other males during their youth, yet will never bond with a female, even after mating.
§ Male humboldt penguins can form lifelong homosexual relationships and will remain exclusively with their partner until one of them dies - in zoo populations at least one in 20 of all pairs of the bird are homosexual. Among king penguins, some birds show a preference for same-sex mates even when unpaired birds of the opposite sex are available.
§ The bonobe or pigmy chimpanzee is generally promiscous with partners of either sex - homosexual activity accounts for almost half of all sexual acts.
§ Female grizzly bears will sometimes bond with each other and raise their young as a family group, though no sexual behaviour has been recorded.
§ In captivity, some elephants of both sexes engage in homosexual activity, using their trunks to touch each other."
"Among the many British species with homosexual tendencies are red and grey squirrels, badgers, grey seals, red deer, mute swans and mallard ducks. Courting displays by garden birds such as sparrows, starlings, crows, magpies and blackbirds are also often targeted at same-sex partners."
"Bagemihl's research challenges the theory that homosexuality might be a natural way to reduce population size when a species becomes too numerous for its environment. Even in a species of bird such as the black stilt, of which fewer than 100 pairs are left in the wild, there are still female homosexual couples. He does not believe they pose any particular threat to the population's survival."
"Bagemihl discovered evidence of homosexuality among many other types of animal. These include lizards, tortoises, frogs, snakes, fish, beetles, dragonflies, butterflies, spiders and bees."
"Gay people have spent years opposing the argument that homosexuality is unnatural but Bagemihl's revelations will amuse rather than reassure them, according to Alan Sinfield, professor of English at Sussex University and an expert in cultural attitudes towards homosexuals. Sinfield said: 'They have tended to side-step the notion and say it doesn't matter what animals do - we're a more advanced species'."
o Which way does your monkey swing? by Tim Cornwell in The Times Higher Education Supplement, 18th. June, 1999, pages 22-23. "For two centuries Bagemihl argues, field observations of 'the love that dare not bark its name' have been dismissed as irrelevant, perverse or just plain 'bestial'. But while Bagemihl himself is openly gay, his book is more than a polemic of sexual politics or a queering of zoology. It includes a 400-page index to homosexuality in animals from antbird to zebra, from the savanna baboon to the great cormorant, all drawn from published studies. It is littered with distracting photographs of happy couplings between male giraffes or female pigmy chimps, not to mention line drawings of hedgehog cunnilingus."
"The history of ideas and attitudes towards homosexuality is encapsulated in the titles of zoological articles (or book chapters) on the subject through the ages:
§ "Sexual perversion in male beetles", (1896)
§ "Disturbances of the sexual sense [in baboons]", (1922)
§ "Pseudomale behaviour in a female bengalee [a domesticated finch]", (1957)
§ "Aberrant sexual behaviour in the South African ostrich", (1972)
§ "Abnormal sexual behaviour of confined female hemichienus auritus syriacus [long-eared hedgehogs]", (1981)
§ "Pseudocopulation in nature in a unisexual whiptail lizard", (1991)
§ "A note on the apparent lowering of moral standards in the lepidoptera, W. J. Tennent, (1987)
o Nowt so queer as animals by Adam Mars-Jones in The Observer Review, 25th. July, 1999, page 11. "Birds do it, bees do it, even educated fleas do it - fall for their own sex, that is."
"Bagemihl draws on, and persuasively interprets, a vast quantity of data, going back many decades. So how is it that an activity so widespread in so many species could have remained unnoticed for so long? The explanation has disturbing implications for the entire scientific method, so often announced as value-free, as if the values of the scientists making observations did not impinge on their project. The answers to the questions you ask are structured by the questions you don't think even need asking."
"There are three ways in which trained observers can overlook a widespread activity: by not seeing it; by not noticing it; by making it disappear from their results. Primary, secondary and tertiary invisibility, in descending order of defensibility."
"Homosexual behaviour can pass unnoticed if all sexual acts are posited to be heterosexual. When scientists studying a population of birds, for instance, assume that every mounter is male and every mountee female, every cranny of the habitat could be throbbing with same-sex couplings and they would be none the wiser. This lesson could have been learned long ago, on the basis of the study of a population of king penguins carried out at Edinburgh Zoo between 1915 and 1930. Genders were assigned to the birds on the basis of their first round of shenanigans. As the penguins partied on, the observers were forced to rechristen Bertha Bertrand and Andrew Ann. It turned out that only one of the birds had been correctly identified. In a wild population, the errors might never have shown up ('That looks a lot like Andrew, but ... it can't be!'). Yet sexing by behaviour is still being used in the field."
o Gay the gorilla and the secrets of gender by Thomas Sambrook in The Times Higher Education Supplement, 14th. April, 2000, page 27. "Ideology's impact on science is central to Bruce Bagemihl's Magnum opus on animal homosexuality Biological Exuberance. Although I have gone on to observe it myself, as a PhD student I flatly denied the possibility of non-reproductive sexuality in animals until a colleague showed a photograph he had taken of oral sex in macaques. Even then I wondered if it might be some clever camera trick. Bagemihl claims that ethology has systematically failed to report, dressed up as aberrant and otherwise theoretically marginalised a century of evidence showing that homosexuality is a common behaviour in a variety of species."
"In some species, straight sex is unusual; 64 per cent of female bonobo sexual interactions are same-sex."
"Inevitably we must ask: what light does this shed on human sexuality? In revising how we regard the natural world, Bagemihl's book may ultimately do as much for gay and lesbian rights as have several decades of social campaigning. Animals strongly mould our perceptions of behaviour."
· Gay vulture couple raise surrogate chicks by Eric Silver in The Independent, 2nd. August, 1999, page 1. "A pair of homosexual griffon vultures at Jerusalem Zoo have lovingly reared two fledglings of their endangered species. The adult males, known as Dashik and Yehuda, built a nest last year and set up home together. In the spirit of gay liberation, they openly and energetically mated, but failed to produce a single egg. Then, as an experiment, Israeli zoologist Shmuel Yidow took a day-old vulture chick that had been hatched in an incubator; inserted it carefully inside a swan's egg and slipped it into the nest. Fooled, the pair took turns to sit on it and warm it until it hatched again. Dashik and Yehuda then reared their baby: 'They did a great job,' said the zoo's spokeswoman, Sigalit Dvir. 'They shaded him on hot days, they brought him water from a pond, they fed him, they stopped him falling from the nest'. This summer the adoptive parents have done it again."
"The trouble is that hand-reared vultures find it harder to adjust to nature. They look for human beings to feed them. 'It's better,' Shmuel Yidow explained, 'for vultures to take care of vultures'. Gay or straight."
· The whole world's out Editorial in New Scientist, 7th. August, 1999, No. 2198, page 3. "Evolutionary biologists have always had a problem with homosexuality. If it has any genetic basis, and if homosexuals tend to have fewer children than heterosexuals, then a full-blooded Darwinian view would suggest that the genes involved should have disappeared long ago."
"That there is at least some genetic basis to homosexuality is suggested by the work of Dean Hamer, who made headlines in 1993 with his discovery of the 'gay gene'. Hamer, of course, never claimed that genes 'caused' homosexuality, just that some genes made homosexuality more likely to occur during the interaction between genes and environment that creates any behaviour."
"To their shame, animal researchers have been rather slow to report observations on the true range of sexual behaviour. But it all adds to the challenge of explaining the evolution of homosexuality."
· Queer creatures by Gail Vines in New Scientist, 7th. August, 1999, No. 2198, pages 32-35. " 'I was young and naive,' recalls Linda Wolfe. 'I thought everyone would be happy that I had found something new.' But she was in for a big shock. 'People started to ask me, do you have some kinky interest we don't know about?' And when she came to publish her results, the referees accused her of doctoring the photographs and making up the data."
"Even today, many researchers are reluctant to admit that same-sex encounters are 'normal' - that is, 'part of what primates do, part of their total sexual repertoire' says Wolfe, now chair of anthropology at East Carolina University in Greenville, North Carolina."
" 'Bagemihl's bestiary of homosexual behaviour really impressed me,' says Paul Harvey, an evolutionary biologist at the University of Oxford. "It is very clear that animals do it very regularly right across the animal kingdom. The beauty of the book is all that data - how much that guy's read,' Harvey adds, 'This book should not be ignored'."
"Yet despite its apparent ubiquity, homosexuality among animals is far from common knowledge, even among biologists. 'Although the first reports of homosexual behaviour among primates were published more than 75 years ago,' says primatologist Paul Vasey of Concordia University in Montreal, 'virtually every major introductory text in primatology fails to even mention its existence'."
"Most researchers are not as candid as field biologist Valerius Geist, well known for his long-term studies of mountain sheep in the North American Rockies. Some 20 years ago, he bravely confessed: 'I still cringe at the memory of seeing old D-ram mount S-ram repeatedly. To conceive of those magnificent beasts as 'queers'. Oh God!' For two years, Geist recounts, he tried to convince himself that the mounting was essentially an aggressive, dominance behaviour. 'I never published that drivel and I am glad of it. Eventually I called the spade a spade and admitted that the rams lived essentially a homosexual society'."
"Indeed, some researchers, notably Tim Clutton-Brock of the University of Cambridge, would say that 'true' homosexuality - if strictly defined as male anal penetration by males who show no interest in females - is virtually unknown among wild mammals."
"There is one species, however, in which pleasure and homosexual activity seem undeniably linked. Even the sceptical Clutton-Brock, when asked about this species, the bonobos or pigmy chimpanzees, agrees laughingly, 'Oh them, well, they'd probably do anything'."
" 'If you're looking for homosexual sex in vast quantities, forget humans, it's bonobos you want,' says primatologist Robin Dunbar. 'It's scandalous,' he chuckles. 'They'll have sex with anyone, never mind the sex or age.' An observer doesn't have to wait long to notice females locked into a face-to-face embrace all the better to indulge in mutual genital rubbing, or spy males glued together via open-mouthed kisses with plentiful mutual tongue stimulation. 'One plausible explanation is that all this is principally a bonding device,' says Dunbar of the University of Liverpool."
"DNA testing is now exposing unconventional social set-ups among other identical-looking birds. In an on-going study of rare roseate terns on Bird Island off Massachusetts, researchers are monitoring female-female pairs confirmed by molecular sexing techniques. Ian Nesbet and Jeremy Hatch of the University of Massachusetts in Boston find that 12 per cent of the nests are tended by lesbian terns, who share in the incubation of three or four eggs - two is the norm for heterosexual couples."
"It will take a long time before such ideas reach the mainstream. But Vasey sees Bagemihl's 'exhaustively and meticulously researched' book as a watershed. 'His work will make it increasingly difficult for anyone to write off the whole idea of homosexuality in animals'."
· Male beetles attracted by females mounting by Ally R. Harari and H. Jane Brockman in Brief communications in Nature, 21st. October, 1999, vol. 401, no. 6755, pages 762-3. "Intrasexual mounting is performed by males and females of many taxa, and female-female mounting occurs in insects, lizards, birds and mammals. Although the adoption by females of other male-like characters such as mimicry of male colour patterns, is known to be advantageous, the benefits of female-female mounting have remained mysterious. Here we describe a pattern of female-female mounting in the beetle Diaprepes abbreviatus (Curculionidae) and demonstrate that it conveys a possible evolutionary advantage by providing a greater opportunity for the females to mate with larger males. This explanation may also apply to female intrasexual mounting in several other insect species."
The communication includes a colour photograph of a female-female mounting.
There were several press reports based on this communication, including the following.
Beetles mount a strong case for gay behaviour by Steve Connor in The Independent, 21st. October, 1999, page 5. "Biologists have found an evolutionary explanation for homosexual behaviour - at least in a species of beetle where members of the same sex frequently copulate."
"A study of Diaprepes abbreviatus, an inch-long [25 mm] American beetle known as the sugarcane rootstalk-borer weevil, found 'lesbian' behaviour attracts bigger male suitors. Ally Harari, a biologist at Ben-Gurion University in Israel, and Jane Brockman, professor of zoology at the University of Florida in Gainsville, say: 'By mounting each other, the females are able to attract more attention from larger males than if they were seeking males alone'."
"Their study, published in Nature, shows smaller males are apparently put off by the size of the top female, which is usually the larger sex. Biologists have often observed homosexual behaviour in several species. The standard explanation, for instance in domesticated cows that mount each other, is that it is a display of dominance."
"The beetle researchers stuck dead females of varying sizes to the backs of living ones and found large males were attracted to larger copulating females. Apparently, male beetles are not good at distinguishing between copulating females and a heterosexual pair."
"Their next goal is to find out why male beetles engage in homosexual behaviour."
· Gay chimps? They never taught us that in biology by Paul Miles in The Independent on Sunday, 6th. May, 2001, page 5. "Of course there is more to Amsterdam than its dopey coffee shops and sex industry. But in keeping with the city's game-for-anything image, it is fitting that the city's Artis Zoo offers special 'gayded' tours. Here is your chance to meet the resident gay and lesbian chimps and learn things your biology teacher never taught you, or probably never knew - such as homosexuality in cockroaches and transgender fish."
"We were met in the zoo's café by Dr Charlotte Vermeulen, the zoo's education officer, who was to lead our small band of gay tourists. She explained the zoo's policy of alerting customers to the gay animal kingdom. 'Although we don't run the tour very often, it seems to have captured people's imaginations,' she said. And yes, she firmly believes in the notion that beasts, as well as homo erectus, can be homosexual - possibly even fetishistic." (article truncated due to space, continues in next segment...)
_________________________
Namaste, Asoka Ram Om Nama Shiva Jaya Durga Ma Oh my dearest Mother by Kashi Ganga, I kiss your fiercely nurturing feet... Hanuman Ki Jay! In this Year of the Monkey...

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#47879 - 02/17/04 05:35 AM Re: Being a gay Hindu - My first step towards freedom [Re: marik]
asokaram Offline
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Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 261
Loc: Denmark
"Artis's Gayded tours are not just about the animals found in the zoo's 37 acres. They also explore the wider issues of sexuality in non-human species. Indeed, the zoo has a library full of research papers about anything and everything from 'the relationship between homosexuality and dominance in cockroaches' to the 'goslings of gay geese'."

END

Please, dearest Marik I am so doggoned tired now of this subject, and am so very busy with other things. Please, please I beg you to either let this subject go without opinion or research the academic work above by entering the researchers names into a search engine and looking at other researchers evaluations of that research, pros and cons.

With great love and respect, Asoka Ram
_________________________
Namaste, Asoka Ram Om Nama Shiva Jaya Durga Ma Oh my dearest Mother by Kashi Ganga, I kiss your fiercely nurturing feet... Hanuman Ki Jay! In this Year of the Monkey...

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#47880 - 02/17/04 06:16 AM Re: Being a gay Hindu - My first step towards freedom [Re: asokaram]
marik Offline
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Registered: 07/06/03
Posts: 1366
Loc: United States
Quote:

That evening, on Feb. 10, 2004, thread # 39248, I listed three articles that directly dealt with it, from the New York Times, The Telegraph of London, and BBC (genetic research). I asked the sources if I could in total republish these articles here, and I was given that permission provided I place sourcing and copyright info as well, and not change anything in the articles. So I did that in thread # 39416. That took a lot of work on my part.




Sorry, I guess i missed these. I will read.
_________________________
By cultivating friendliness towards happiness and compassion towards misery, gladness towards virtue and indifference towards vice, the mind becomes pure. -- Patanjali

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#47881 - 02/17/04 06:32 AM Re: Being a gay Hindu - My first step towards freedom [Re: asokaram]
marik Offline
elder
***

Registered: 07/06/03
Posts: 1366
Loc: United States
Dear Asoka,

Quote:

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That evening, on Feb. 10, 2004, thread # 39248, I listed three articles that directly dealt with it, from the New York Times, The Telegraph of London, and BBC (genetic research). I asked the sources if I could in total republish these articles here, and I was given that permission provided I place sourcing and copyright info as well, and not change anything in the articles. So I did that in thread # 39416. That took a lot of work on my part.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Sorry, I guess i missed these. I will read.





Quote:

Quote:

Please, dearest Marik I am so doggoned tired now of this subject, and am so very busy with other things. Please, please I beg you to either let this subject go without opinion or research the academic work above by entering the researchers names into a search engine and looking at other researchers evaluations of that research, pros and cons.









Of course
I am sorry to have tired you.
After I read the sources which I had overlooked previously, I may comment, but you are certainly not under oblication to respond. I understand completely

Namaste
_________________________
By cultivating friendliness towards happiness and compassion towards misery, gladness towards virtue and indifference towards vice, the mind becomes pure. -- Patanjali

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#47882 - 02/17/04 06:34 AM Re: Being a gay Hindu - My first step towards freedom *DELETED* [Re: marik]
Shaivite Offline
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Registered: 11/06/02
Posts: 2999
Post deleted by Shaivite

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#47883 - 02/17/04 06:43 AM Re: Being a gay Hindu - My first step towards freedom [Re: Shaivite]
marik Offline
elder
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Registered: 07/06/03
Posts: 1366
Loc: United States
Quote:

I don't have any bad feelings for you and you seem to be in good spirits now. Namaste. ~Shaivite~





Well thank you Shaivite. But I was actually replying to Asokaram in this post... did I reply to the wrong thread?

_________________________
By cultivating friendliness towards happiness and compassion towards misery, gladness towards virtue and indifference towards vice, the mind becomes pure. -- Patanjali

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#47884 - 02/17/04 06:59 AM Re: Being a gay Hindu - My first step towards freedom [Re: marik]
asokaram Offline
member
****

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 261
Loc: Denmark
Thanks, Marik, and love you so much. This felt like defending a thesis. Now I just want to sing to my beloved Guru.
_________________________
Namaste, Asoka Ram Om Nama Shiva Jaya Durga Ma Oh my dearest Mother by Kashi Ganga, I kiss your fiercely nurturing feet... Hanuman Ki Jay! In this Year of the Monkey...

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#47885 - 02/17/04 07:23 AM Re: Being a gay Hindu - My first step towards freedom [Re: Shaivite]
marik Offline
elder
***

Registered: 07/06/03
Posts: 1366
Loc: United States
Shaivite,

Quote:

Marik, don't worry about your tone or attitude the other day




Hmmm....
My this post was to Asokaram, but you seem to often respond to posts intended for him. And come to think of it, he has also either responded to, or included your responses in my posts to you. Curious.

At any rate, I am not at all worried. My error was not intentional, I have tried to make amends, and have learned something invaluable.

Quote:

It was just the other day, it seemed like you woke up on the wrong side of the bed if you know what I mean.




No, actually I don't know what you mean.
I got carried away with my quest for truth and let ego over-ride my discipline. I assure you it had nothing to do with either side of a bed.

Quote:

Again, don't make such a big deal about it that you think you need to "cleanse" yourself but if you think that helps, then great.




Well, I don't know exactly what you mean by "cleanse", or "make a big deal", but my direction comes from Krishna's teachings in Bhagavad-Gita, chaps 2 and 3 concerning spiritual discipline and discipline of action, and chap 7 knowledge and judgement. This is my guide, not only these of course but all 18 chapters, but these 3 in this particular instance. This is what I "think that helps".

Namaste

_________________________
By cultivating friendliness towards happiness and compassion towards misery, gladness towards virtue and indifference towards vice, the mind becomes pure. -- Patanjali

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