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#3074 - 03/22/00 06:09 AM Instances of psuedo-secularism in India ***
Vishal_Agarwal Offline

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#3075 - 04/05/00 02:05 AM Appeasement of Pan-Islamists by Pseudosecularists [Re: Vishal_Agarwal]
Vishal_Agarwal Offline

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#3076 - 04/29/00 05:29 PM Media wrongly blames Hindus [Re: Vishal_Agarwal]
Vishal_Agarwal Offline

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In some recent incidents where the victims happened to be Christians, the Indian pseudo-secularist media went around the whole world castigating 'communal Hindus'. Fortunately, the fact finding mission of the Minorities Commission has come out with the truth.
_________________

Minorities panel rules out communal angle
(The Hindu, April 29, 2000)

By Our Special Correspondent

NEW DELHI, APRIL. 28. The National Commission for Minorities has described the recent attacks on Christian educational institutions in Agra, Mathura and Rewari as being cases of ``robbery and law and order problem'' with no communal tinge to them.

While it commended the handling of the local administration in Mathura and Agra, the Commission noted that a political colour was sought to be given to the incidents in a bid to create a wedge among Hindus and Christians.

Concerned over reports of five incidents targeting Christian minority institutions, the Commission visited Agra, Kosi and Mathura to make an on-the-spot assessment of the situation.

At Kosi, where St. Theresa's School was attacked on April 11 and Father K.K. Thomas and a school maid were beaten up, the Commission members met the Father who told them there was no communal angle to the incident in which eight or 10 anti-social elements took away about Rs. 1 lakh, a camera and two tape- recorders.

Similarly, the incident in St. Dominic's School in Mathura on April 10 was a result of the fallout of a heated verbal exchange over school admission.




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#3077 - 05/04/00 11:33 AM Re: Appeasement of Pan-Islamists by Pseudosecularists [Re: Vishal_Agarwal]
Mughal Offline
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[[ This ‘eminent’ cleric was Syed Abdul Hasan Ali Nadvi, popularly known as Ali Mian. When a suggestion was made to pray for the victory of Indian forces fighting in Kargil, it was turned down by Ali Mian and his congregation. As a true Muslim, he could not pray for the kafirs fighting against a jihad by fellow Muslims, even when they are from Pakistan. ]]

I think that people who made these suggestion were not naive and they knew the provocative character of this "suggestion". To imagine a Muslim cleric who prays for the victory of an alien army which fights against his own people would be foolish at the best. Instead of being satisfied with simple passive loyalty and submission of their Muslim subjects, Hindus want to extort from them the incredible thing - the active support for the Hindu state. The one thing Hindus can expect from Muslim minority that they will stop hostile activities against Hindu state in exchange for the firm garantee of the safety of life and property. But it is irresonable to think that Muslims can ever accept Hindu Bhaarat as their own state and actively support it, even against their own correligionaries.


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#3078 - 05/23/00 05:43 PM Instances of psuedo-secularism in India [Re: Vishal_Agarwal]
Vishal_Agarwal Offline

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The following article exposes the pseudo-secularist Khushwant Singh

http://www.rediff.com/news/2000/may/23arvind.htm


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#3079 - 05/25/00 01:54 AM Re: Appeasement of Pan-Islamists by Pseudosecularists [Re: Mughal]
gargsam Offline
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"I think that people who made these suggestion were not naive and they knew the provocative character of this "suggestion". To imagine a Muslim cleric who prays for the victory of an alien army which fights against his own people would be foolish at the best. Instead of being satisfied with simple passive loyalty and submission of their Muslim subjects, Hindus want to extort from them the incredible thing - the active support for the Hindu state. The one thing Hindus can expect from Muslim minority that they will stop hostile activities against Hindu state in exchange for the firm garantee of the safety of life and property. But it is irresonable to think that Muslims can ever accept Hindu Bhaarat as their own state and actively support it, even against their own correligionaries."

This one paragraph neatly sums up the whiny, cowardly traitor that is the muslim mullah in India. These mullahs have raised "namakharaami" to an artform....the only artform which muslims actually pioneered and continually excel in........

By contrast, the Pakistani Hindu actually supports Pak's stance on Kashmir. Visit their website and check it for yourself.


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#3080 - 06/02/00 02:51 AM Pseudosecularist Tirade against 'Satyameva Jayate' [Re: Vishal_Agarwal]
Vishal_Agarwal Offline

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The following article from Pseudo-secularists shows how they see eye to eye with Muslim fanatics. At the end is also appended a Hindu response:
______________________________________

Communalism Watch and Governance Monitor Alert
VEHEMENT ANTI-ISLAMIC WEBSITE
S. P. Udayakumar
May 24, 1999

With much pain and agony, a few Muslim friends have pointed out a disgusting website that maligns Islam, Prophet Mohammed and Muslims in general. Almost all of the pieces that are found in the site are bubbling with bigotry, fanaticism, and schitzophrenia. Sickening the reader to the
core of her being, the website along with its intense hatred and dangerous intent sends a chill through the reader's spine. The site is so abrasive and vehement that the religious sentiments of Muslims are bound to be hurt. The site in question is this:
http://www.flex.com/~jai/satyamevajayate/

The content of the site makes one think about the difference between free speech and hate speech and where (or how) one draws the line between the two. Some of the bigoted sections of various religious communities in India do not distinguish between free speech and hate speech. For them any speech that attempts to come close to their closed minds is an extremist speech, and they panic to protect their minds by stifling free speech. When the Deccan Chronicle published a short story under the title, "Mohammed, the Idiot" in 1987, some enraged Muslims in Hyderabad attacked the newspaper office and set it ablaze. The widespread condemnation of and dangerous threats to the lives of Salman Rushdie and Taslima Nasreen, and the Hindutva brigades' cowardly attacks on various
writers and artists such as M. F. Hussain, Anand Patwardhan and others are some of the infamous episodes of intolerance related to free speech in India.

Without condoning this kind of hypersensitivities, fettered-speech avocations, and extremist tendencies of the bigoted sections of our religious communities, any fair-minded reader of the above website who hails from a pluralistic society would readily agree that it has to be filtered if not shut down all together. One could and should be able to
discuss the beliefs and practices of various religious communities in the spirit of open inquiry for that is part of being an open and democratic society. However, denigrating the Prophet and the Book of a religious
community, especially a minority community that lives amidst an overwhelming 'Hindu' majority, in such a vulgar and revolting language with obscene and despicable arguments is not acceptable. As we all know, hate speech often kindles communal passions and gives rise to tensions
and riots in India and other parts of South Asia.

Intriguingly enough, the Hinduva bigots with their fascist mindset do not even see the need to justify their extremist speech by any meaningful arguments. They do not invoke their right to speak or freedom to speak (or write or think) what they please. Nor do they stake a claim to the
equality of speeches of various communities. Theirs is an authoritarian attitude of saying what they want to say and stifling what everybody else would like to say. In other words, as the sole proprietors of the fascist"Bharatvarsh Inc.", they are free to speak but no one else is. 'Free
speech' for them means 'free of responsibility' speech. The loose-tongued Bal Thackeray and the intolerant hoodlums of Shiv Sena, blow-hot-blow-cold practices of the BJP leaders, obtuse remarks of the VHP personalities and the outright hooliganism of the Bajrang Dal all demonstrate this point.

Turning to the website, the Hindutva bigots have chosen the title "Satyamevajayate" quite deliberately.Misappropriating the secular State slogan (which means "Truth Alone Triumphs"), and packing the site with their trademark 'mythologized history' and 'historicized mythology' and so much of anti-social venom, the bigots try to send a not-so-subtle message to the Indian Muslims that they are not part of the Indian nation. Some of the typical Hindutva topics such as the 'indigenous Aryans' theory, destruction of Hindu temples, Taj Mahal and so forth are
also included in the site to consolidate their hateful 'Hindudom.'

Contrary to the cunning claim that the site is managed by a Muslim (zulfikark@usa.net), even a cursory look at the site would reveal that it is a concerted effort of some perverted and dangerous Hindutva elements. The site is part of the homepage of a "Vedic astrologer," who asks the
>> readers if the BJP will gain in the coming elections. This "Jai Maharaj" (email: jai@flex.com) also runs a Hawaii List with people who have or have had Hawaiian connections. The website is hosted with root@flex.com, an Internet Service Provider based in Honolulu, Hawai'i.

Lurking in the hidden corners of the internet, these Hindutva bigots are sowing the dangerous seeds of bigotry and bestiality not just in India but around the world. The societal ramifications of their dastardly act can be far-reaching and very dangerous in India, other parts of South
Asia and the larger the world. Some of the angry and resentful emails already denounce this site as a "Hindu" effort and these emailers fail miserably to differentiate between "Hindus" and "Hindutva bigots." This kind of quick and easy diagnosis can only mean simple and generic remedy,
and sudden and swift administration. Innocent individuals and their families may pay a heavy price, and the already volatile Indian society may suffer further. The impending general elections will only add further to this scary specter.

India being a multi-religious country, mutual respect for the religious sentiments of one another and self-restraint have been and should continue to be the hallmarks of our societal peace. Tolerance of the intolerant is not and cannot be a choice for a diverse society like ours. How do we deal with this tricky situation is beyond the purview of this alert.

But something needs to be done with this website venom. What can we do? Two simplest things could be emailing the website host and pointing out the seemingly innocent role they are playing in the treacherous game of some bigots and fascists.

PS: The frequency with which the Pseudo-secular has used the words 'bigot', bestiality' and 'fascist' shows that he is giving vent to extreme hatred in his own heart! (VA)
________________________________________
A Hindu Response
Dear Webmaster:

Fanatical Islamists, oppossed to the Freedom of Speech
and Expression, under the guise of humanists and
egalitariansim have tried and apparently not given up on
their efforts to curb the freedom of Mr. Zulfikar Khan
and Dr. Jai Maharaj. Moslems have tried over and again,
to stifle freedom of speech - if it is oppossed to their
religious dictates. The example of Salman Rushdie is too
well-known. I am forwarding you an e-mail from one Mr.
Udaykumar, who is now taking sides with Moslems to call
for having the Satyameva Jayate Website taken off the
readers's access.

This sinister attempt by the Moslem fanatics is
contemptible and must be challenged. The Satyameva Jayate
Website may perhaps contain unpleasant material. However
there is no material therein that is slanderous or false.
The author (Zulfikar Khan) has made honest efforts to
back his claims by citing the works of the various
authors, and the Quran. A literal reading of the Quran,
in particular Quran [047:004],[008:039] - as examples
show that such contents are highly derigatory and most
vindictive towards people of other ethnicities and
denominations. It is true that every Moslem is not a
fanatic, and may not interpret the Quran literally. But,
that does not mean that that the contents of the Quran
cannot be criticized for their most vicious and
malevolent attitude towards non-Moslems.

Lastly, what Zulfikar Khan has done is perfectly well
within the purview of the US Constitution. In USA, the
KKK has their own website - http://www.kkk.com The non-
whites, Jews, Blacks and various others know that sucb
website exists but the KKK website has not been removed
not the creators have been defined to be on the wrong
side of the law. The KKK is a hateful website, but the
Satyameva Jayate Website *DOES NOT* promote hate. It
exposes the dark side of Islam, and shows by quoting from
the Quran with adequate references, that Islam promotes
terrorism and hatred. Additionally, by citing authentic
sources, the website shows that Prophet Mohammed serves
an inspiration for the Moslems to use terrorism in order
to propagate Islam. Yes, the contents maybe unpleasant to
Moslems and their compatriots and sympathizers like Mr.
Udaykumar, but it does not mean that what is unpleasant
to Moslems and their friends, cannot be put up on the
website.

I therefore cannot understand, why tbe Satyameva
Jayate Website will be taken off the internet ? If so,
please provide me with some reasons. I would like to
inform other sympathizers of Jai Maharaj and Zulfikar
Khan, whom I know, and we may contemplate on a collective
legal action, should the situation arise in such a
manner.

I would appreciate your feedback on this matter.

- regards,
===========================================
Deb Chatterjee, Ph.D.



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#3081 - 06/07/00 07:07 PM True colors of a Christian Intellectual [Re: Vishal_Agarwal]
Vishal_Agarwal Offline

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With countrymen like these, does India and Indians need enemies? Mr. Ninan forgets that whilst Fiji Indians are immigrants, Indian Muslims are not and for this reason alone, there is no parallel. Besides, Fijians themselves follow an alien religion centred in Palestine and Rome. In any case, so intense is the hatred in the heart of Ninan (the author) against the RSS that he will even advocate harassment of his own brothers in race in Fiji even if to spite the RSS and its allies.

Prefixed is a covering letter from Professor Asnani
______________________

Dear Hindu brothers and sisters,
Subject: Supporter of Mr. Speight of Fiji at high level inside India

I am enclosing copy of article titled "Advice for Mr. Speight" by Mr.T.N.Ninan, Editor of Business Standard Mumbai, (INDIA) which appeared in Business Standard Vol. 4, No. 258 dated weekend June 3/June 4, 2000. The article can be accessed on Internet
http://www.business-standard.com/00jun03/edit1.htm
Mr. T.N.Ninan, is a Christian from Kerala, formerly on Editorial Board of Economic Times published by Times of India group in India. He has been recently appointed by the Govt. of India on the advisory Board for Economic Affairs. Please look at his anti-Hindu, anti-RSS outlook; the rest is for you to judge. Mr. Devare of External Affairs Ministry, Delhi has been deputed by Govt. of India to look after Indians interests in Fiji through Canberra in Australia.

Yours sincerely,

(G.C.ASNANI)
____________________
Source : BUSINESS STANDARD, Mumbai Weekend, (INDIA),
Volume in No. 258, June 3-4, 2000


WEEKEND RUMINATIONS

Advice for Mr Speight

If the RSS can try to Islamise Hinduism, what's wrong with
Fijians taking a leaf out of the book of India's leading cultural organisation, asks T N Ninan.

George Speight in distant Fiji may or may not have heard of the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS), but he would be well advised to take temporary leave of his urgent pre-occupations in the parliament building in Suva, and hop on to the next available flight to Nagpur. This might sound like an odd suggestion to make, given what Mr.Speight has done to a certain unmentionable Mr Chaudhury in the immediate past. Mr Speight might also wonder about the welcome that he might get in India, given the efforts by a Swayamsevak-led government in India to rally support for preserving the multi-racial nature of the Fijian polity.
But Mr Speight needn't worry. What he may not know is that the RSS has already worked out all the reasons to justify his actions of the past couple of weeks, and he could find some of them very handy indeed. It might be embarrassing for him to borrow ideas from the hated Indians,but if the RSS can try to Islamise Hinduism, what's wrong with Fijians
taking a leaf out of the book of India's leading cultural organisation?

So, let's take a look at what might be the lessons that Mr
Speight could borrow from the RSS. Mr Speight could argue, for instance, that the Fijians of Indian ethnicity need to be made second class citizens, with poliitical rights, because unlike the native Fijians they don't regard the numerous islands of Fiji as their punyabhoomi, looking
instead to holy places in distant lands -- places like Varanasi and Mathura. Why, they might even be looking overseas for political support, thus raising doubts about their basic patriotism; after all, didn't the deposed prime minister's relatives in Haryana appeal to the Indian prime
minister to intervene in Fiji's internal affairs?

The hard-pressed Mr Speight could also argue that the Fijians of Indian ethnicity are guilty of cheering for Indian teams in cricket, watching Zee programme telecast in Hindi, and generally harbouring other non-Fijian loyalties, while not partaking of traditional Fijian cultural
activities like drinking grog.

And if there is international attention focused on pictures
beamed out by a wire service, showing native Fijians robbing an Indian cab-driver of his car and other possessions, Mr Speight will understand and appreciate how those who brought down the Babri Masjid in Ayodhya in 1992 first attacked press photographers so that there could be no
evidence of their actions captured on film.

But since it is too late to copy those tactics now in Suva
(mostly because the army has moved into the streets), Mr Speigh could argue that it is unfair that the world pay attention to the fate of an Indian cab-driver, when it does not pay any attention when the ethnic Fijians, who are in the majority, get a raw deal in their motherland.

If the deposed president, or the chief of the armed forces who has imposed martial law, were to demand that those who have rioted and looted Indian-Fijian property in the last fortnight be brought to book, Mr Speight could cite the precedent of the Srikrishna report on the Mumbai riots leading to no action against those found guilty.

Why blame ethnic Fijians for taking the law into their own
hands? After all, isn't that what the Indians themselves do, and get away with doing?

And if the celebrated V S Naipaul argues that what has happened in India is nothing more than a long-suppressed society re-asserting itself, and that he understands such urges, perhaps Mr Naipaul could be asked to express similar support for the desires of the native Fijian people, so that they can reclaim their homeland from the hands of a
privileged, alien-imposed minority.

Indeed, Mr Naipaul might be persuaded to talk to the authorities in his native Trinidad, so that Mr Speight can export Indian Fijians there, so that Mr Naipaul can make them feel at home.

Finally, just as the Indians tell the Pakistanis to mind their own business every time they start talking of how Muslims in India are treated, Mr Speight could tell Mr Devare of the ministry of external affairs to mind his own business and go home from Canberra, and stop meddling in Fiji's internal affairs.
------by T.N.Ninan



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#3082 - 06/08/00 12:47 AM Re: True colors of a Christian Intellectual [Re: Vishal_Agarwal]
Mughal Offline
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A very excellent article of Mr. Ninan. Thank you Vishal for posting it!
Indeed a very insightful comparison of the situation of Christian and Muslim minorities in India with that of Hindu minority in Fiji.

Vishal's arguments are against Ninan are absolutely lame:

In reply to:

Mr. Ninan forgets that whilst Fiji Indians are immigrants, Indian Muslims are not and for this reason alone, there is no parallel.


First of all. what is difference whether Indian Muslims are physically imigrants or not?The most important fact is that Indian Muslim consider themselves as descendants of Persians or Arabs what means that in their self perception they are imigrants. From the side of RSS there is however a curious schizophrenia regarding Indian Muslims from one side they claim that Indian Muslims are "Indians"; on the other hand they claim them as "alien element" looking towards Mecca and Medina. In practice the claim that Indian Muslims are "Indians" serve only propaganda purposes to deny Indian Muslims claim to their own cultural heritage, and the claim of the "alienness" of Indian Muslims is used in political practice.

There are however indeed a diference between Fiji and Indian situation. overlooked by Vishal. In India the Hindu majority's power is quite secure, while in Fiji the power of the native majority is under threat.

RSS claims that since Indian Muslims are "Indians" by origin(the fact that Indian Muslims themselves are reluctant to recognize) who by their very birth are obliged to be patriots and RSS are not realizing that an Indian Muslim can be Indian patriot or not to be and that this is their personal and group choice and the only thing that the majority can require from the minority is compliance with laws.

I must say that the idea that the person is obliged to follow a certain path merely because he was born it it, is the most disgusting to me, not in the last place because many of my fellow countrymen also wrongly think that since one is born Lithuanian one is obliged to be patriot of Lithuania and love it. However the patriotism is the matter of personal; choice not of birth. Therefore I have right to be or not to be patriot and nothing has right to tell me that this is an obligation. If I am not satisfied with the culture in which I am born, I have full right to reject it

In India such ideas are strengthened by the hangover of the caste ethics and the idea of swadharma that it is better to perform your inborn dharma badly than perform well the dharma of others.

As for Islam, Qur'an strongly criticizes persons who folow certain tenets only because they have found their ancestors following them. Obviously that Qur'an does not require that man should necessarily reject "ancestral creed" yet the criterium of acceptance of the tenets must be only one's personal persuasion in their truth not the fact that they were followed by ancestors. In other terms "I follow this because it is true not because it is creed of my tribe"

Coming back to Indian Muslims, there is a conflict between their self perception and the other-perception of Muslims by Hindus. Therefore an Indian Muslim probably will think that there is full analogy betwen the Fiji and India situation while Hindu would think that not.

In reply to:

Besides, Fijians themselves follow an alien religion centred in Palestine and Rome. In any case, so intense is the hatred in the heart of Ninan (the author) against the RSS that he will even advocate harassment of his own brothers in race in Fiji even if to spite the RSS and its allies.


One need not forget that the conflict in Fiji is first of all national and not religious. There is the native Fijian community(of whatever religion they are) versus Hindu imigrant community. There is no doubt that Fijians are natives and not imported from Rome or Palestine and that they as community have right to follow any religion they choose. By choosing another religion they don't become aliens.

And certainly Mr. Ninan does not consider Hindus his "brothers of race". He simply considers them members of a community alien to him and he sides with his correligionaries in Fiji. He has full right to do so.




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#3083 - 06/25/00 07:33 PM Ally threatens to withdraw support to BJP lead Gov [Re: Vishal_Agarwal]
Vishal_Agarwal Offline

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Posts: 1572
Loc: India
Nobody ever threatens to withdraw support when Hindu lives are lost or when 300 000 Hindus become refugees in their own country. But all hell breaks loose when bombs explode in 3 churches. Note how the Church leaders are quick to blame Hindu organizations, as usual.

Vishal
______________________

Key ally to revoke support to Indian PM if Hindu group behind bombings

Agence France-Presse, June 12, 2000

Hyderabad, India, June 12 - A key ally of Prime Minister
A.B Vajpayee's ruling BJP-led coalition Monday told a
Christian group that it would withdraw support to the
government if it was proved that BJP-backed Hindu groups
were behind the recent church bombings, church officials
said.

The All India Christian Council said Chief Minister
Chandrababu Naidu who is the leader of BJP's largest
coalition ally -- a regional party from the southern
Indian state of Andhra Pradesh had assured them of
action.

"Chief Minister Chandrababu Naidu has assured us he will
withdraw support to Vajpayee's government if it is proved
that the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS or National
Volunteer Corps) is behind the attack," said Lion Sam
Paul spokesperson for the All Indian Christian Council.

The RSS is widely regarded as the ideological fountain-
head of several Hindu nationalist groups which include
Vajpayee's BJP party which leads the federal coalition
government. Vajpayee is also a member of the RSS.

RSS leaders deny a bias against the country's minority
Muslims and Christians.

Bombs exploded in four churches across three Indian
states on Thursday, two days after the murder of a Roman
Catholic priest, sparking charges that militant Hindu
organisations had the "silent" backing of the government.

Paul said a dozen Church leaders from Andhra Pradesh
where the church bombings took place met Naidu and
demanded protection from Hindu zealots.

"We want action not words," said Reverend John Augstine
of the Jewett Memorial Baptist Church in Ongole whose
114-year-old church was damaged by a low-intensity blast,
leaving three people injured.

India's federal Central Bureau of Investigation (CBI)
agency has been asked to carry out a thorough probe into
the blasts in the southern states of Andhra Pradesh,
Karnataka and Goa. But no arrests have been made so far.

Church leaders said the new round of violence, which
follows a series of attacks early last year, suggested
the BJP-led coalition was either unable or unwilling to
rein in militant Hindu organisations.

"Investigations are on but we suspect the RSS as they are
the only people with the network capable of launching
such attacks on a national scale."




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