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#19315 - 09/08/00 12:36 PM Indra and Vritra
ashegan Offline
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namaste!
i post herewith the elucidation given by pandit ganga prasad upadhyaya of the indra-vritra conflict that is described in many sukts of the ved (eg. rgved mandal 1, sukt 32).. i have found it most eloquent and inspiring, and hope others will as well..

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This allegory which is very famous in Vedic literature has, like most other parts of the Veda, a two-fold meaning - an exoteric interpretation and an esoteric one, or as they are appropriately called in Yaska's Nirukta, a physical meaning (adhibhautika) and a spiritual meaning (adhyatmika). According to the physical interpretation Indra is the sun; Vritra means literally a coverer (from vri - to cover) and is an epithet of the cloud which covers the sun.

The sun sheds its bright light and genial heat upon this earth, and gives life to all animals and plants. Vritra covers the sun and prevents its light and heat from coming to us and produces darkness though only temporarily. Thus a constant war is going on in the physical world between Indra, the source of light, and Vritra, the cause of darkness. When Vritra gains the upper hand the sun is obscured and the world is enveloped in darkness. But ultimately, Indra gets the victory; Vritra is destroyed and falls down to earth in the form of rain. Indra again appears in all its glory and shines in its full lustre - all the more brilliant after he has destroyed his foe. It is this physical interpretation which forms the exoteric or the physical interpretation of the allegory.

According to the spiritual meaning, Indra is God, the giver of light, the source of all knowledge, all virtue, all righteousness, all happiness - in short, the source of all good. Vritra then is the opposite principle, the principle of evil and darkness. As a perpetual struggle is going on in the physical world between light and darkness, so an eternal war is being waged in the moral world between good and evil.

As the sun illuminates the physical world, so does God, who is good and holy, the source of all spiritual light, brighten our intellect with righteous motives. But the sun is sometimes hidden by clouds and then darkness envelopes the earth. Similarly then the sun of righteousness is sometimes eclipsed by the clouds of wicked passions, and then darkness overspreads the soul. Lust, anger, greed, hate, jealousy and the numberless temptations of the world forming the army of Vritra beseige our soul and try to destroy the light of God that enshrined there. Thus a struggle ensues between Indra and Vritra.

The human soul becomes a battlefield where the armies of Indra and Vritra stand face to face. The soul, sometimes willingly yields to the cunning, insidious, and the serpent-like Vritra. The result is moral anarchy and the reign of evil. The powers of Indra viz. virtuous and righteous feelings retire from the soul which is no longer a fit abode for them, leaving it prey to the powers of evil, to which it has readily abandoned itself. The light of Indra no longer shines on the soul; a sort of moral darkness is produced in which the soul, unable to distinguish between right and wrong, plunges itself into the depths of vice and misery. From this wretchedness it is raised by the beneficient power of God after it has reaped the harvest of its evil choice.

This is the struggle of good and evil which is always going on in this world - the moral struggle of which we are conscious at every moment of our lives. It is this which makes the practise of virtue so difficult in the world, and which is so beautifully portrayed in the above allegory.

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ashegan pillai
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#19316 - 09/09/00 05:20 AM Re: Indra and Vritra [Re: ashegan]
ashegan Offline
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i post here the adidaivik and adhibhautik meanings of the 32nd sukt of the 1st mandal of rg ved ie. the meaning on natural and social planes.. the mantra makes much use of upamalankar or simile as it relates the physical indra, or sun, with the human indra- the king, commander of the army or the president of the assembly...

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MANTRA ONE
(1) O learned person! as you declare the former valorous deeds of the sun, which he, the upholder of the thunderbolt in the form of rays has achieved, he clove the cloud, he cast the waters down to the earth, he broke the way for the torrents of the mountain or the cloud.

(2) As the sun destroys the clouds, so a righteous king should destroy his wicked enemies amd thus should become praiseworthy like the sun. He should be full of vigour and splendour like the sun. He should strike down all enemies that come from the fort (or other places of safety).

MANTRA TWO

(1) The sun who is the disintegrator by his rays, strikes down the thundering cloud seeking refuge on the mountain; he sharpens his far-whirling bolt in the form of his rays; then the flowing waters hasten to the ocean like cows hastening to their calves.

(2) The king, who is President of the Assembly, should be full of vigour and splendour like the sun. He should be the destroyer of his unrighteous enemies by his splendour and force. He should smite the foe who has taken shelter in the fort with his powerful and destructive weapons. He should put an end to the life of such wicked and unrighteous enemies.

MANTRA THREE

(1) Impetuous like a bull, the sun takes with his rays the sap of all substances in the world which have their birth, sustenance and disintegration like the cloud. He smites the first-formed cloud with his rays.

(2) As a bull increasing his vitality becomes powerful and happy, so should the brave king (or commander of the army) become mighty by drinking the juice of many herbs and healthy substances, enjoying health and happiness. As the sun draws the water with his beams, keeps it in the firmament and causes it to rain, so should the mighty commander draw out or lessen the power of his enemies, developing his own forces and showering happiness on his people.

MANTRA FOUR

O king (or commander of the army)! As the sun destroys the first-born clouds and dispels the darkness caused by them, so should you slay the wicked and destroy the delusions of the deluders. As the sun manifests his rays, the dawn and the firmament, you should manifest your splendour, your vast and generous nature like the sky and your beautiful nature like the dawn, dispelling the darkness of ignorance. Then you will find none to oppose you. You should manifest the sun of justice and true knowledge, good character and conduct.

MANTRA FIVE

O mighty king (or commander of the army)! As the sun with the great and deadly thunderbolt of his rays smites into pieces the cloud that covers his light, in the same manner, you should strike down your wicked and unrighteous enemies. As the trunks of a tree are felled by the axe or lightning falling upon them, so lies the cloud prostrate on the earth. You should smite all your wicked foes and make them lie prostrate on the earth.

MANTRA SIX

The cloud, like a mad weak warrior, challenges the mighty sun, the destroyer of all darkness and helper by his light, in earning much wealth. It has been crushed by the mighty sun, unable to withstand his rays. The rivers born of this crushed cloud flow, breaking the banks.
A king (or commander of the army) should behave like the mighty sun. He should smite down all his wicked foes vigorously and should attain reputation as a great hero, the destroyer of the unrighteous.

MANTRA SEVEN

(1) Footless and handless, still the cloud challenges the sun, who smites him with his thunderbolt between his mountain-like shoulders. He falls down on the shattered into pieces by the sun.

(2) The king (or commander of the army) should conduct himself like the mighty sun and should get victory over the wicked and unrighteous with his weapons. As a cloud wages war with the sun, a weak person may desire to wage war with a mighty hero. But as the cloud falls smitten, the man who desires to fight with a righteous king is vanquished.

MANTRA EIGHT

(1) The water that goes to the sky with air, disintegrated by the sun, becomes cloud. When the tanks and rivers become full of water, the cloud covers the light of the sun. When the sun smites it into pieces with his rays, then it enters the banks, big rivers or the sea and sleeps there (so to speak). It may be said that is trampled under the feet of men. In the same manner, an unrighteous person goes to ruin, having grown much for a long time.

(2) O great king! As the cloud with its greatness tries to cover the sun, and then vanquished lies down recumbent on this earth, as a river bursts through its banks. This cloud has been prostrated beneath the feet of the waters which delight the minds of men, and which the cloud by his might had obstructed. In the same manner, may you subdue all your wicked enemies.

MANTRA NINE

When through rain, the cloud comes down to the earth, then its mother (earth) seems to be sleeping with it. The sun is the father of the cloud, being its generator. The earth and the firmament are like two wives of the sun. When the sun draws the water and throws it through the air in the firmament, then his son, the cloud, grows like a mad man. Then the sun smites it down and causes it to fall down on the earth.
In the same manner, the king and the officers of state should throw away the thorns of the people (the wicked) hither abd thither, and should safeguard the interests of their subjects. They should protect and serve them well.

MANTRA TEN

O king (or President of the Assembly)! As the nameless hidden body of the never-stopping, never-resting currents of the cloud lies in the midst of various directions and whose body in the form of the waters, is covered by long-lasting darkness (is in unconscious and inanimate state), that cloud, the enemy of the sun, lies among waters on all sides, in the same manner, all enemies of the people (who come in the way of their progress) should be captured along with their helpmates, and be imprisoned.

MANTRA ELEVEN

O president of the assembly! As the cows are confined by the cowherd or a trader in a cowshed, the waters whose husband is the cloud by which they are covered, stand obstructed, but by slaying the cloud , the sun sets open the cave that confines them and after he has killed the cloud, sets open the door of their going out, in which floods had been imprisoned, in the same manner, you should capture and keep imprisoned the unrighteous enemies and keep open always the door of justice.

MANTRA TWELVE

O heroic commander of the army! You behave towards your enemies as the sun destroys the moving and active cloud which fights like a warrior, but which the sun smites into pieces with his rays. Thereby the sun wins the cows, and wins the soma and other herbs and sends the water to seven places consisting of seas, rivers, wells, tanks on the earth and near places in the firmament, lying, distant and mid-between them.
(In the same manner, let the king who is the protector of his subjects subdue his foes, smiting them with his weapons and thus by humbling them, become an instrument in them treading the path of righteousness)

MANTRA THIRTEEN

O commander of the army! As in the battle between the sun and the cloud, neither the lightning nor the thunder discharged by the cloud, nor the rain which he showered, nor the thunderbolt harm the sun, when the cloud contends against him and he triumphs too over other attackes, in the same manner, you should get victory over all your unrighteous enemies by acquiring full force and strength.
(there is vachaka luptopamalankara or 'implied simile' here.. the officers of state should remember that that as the means such as lightning etc possessed by the cloud are insignificant before the sun, and the means of the latter are greater and superior which is why he is victorious, in the same way, one should get victory over one's foes by righteous and superior means)

MANTRA FOURTEEN

O warrior, destroyer of your enemies! When there is the battle between the sun and the cloud, whom do you look for destroer and scatterer of the cloud whose lightning and thunder frighten some beings except the sun? Killed by the sun, the cloud falls down on the earth and its waters fill many rivers. As a pigeon frightened by the hawk, the cloud struck by the sun lays prostrate on the earth transversing ninety nine (or an indefinate number of) streams like a hawk. Because the sun is great and mighty on account of his light, attraction and piercing powers, he is superior to all other worlds. He surpasses them all.
Therefore, O hero, thou shouldst be also mighty and splendid like the sun and kill all enemies whom thou seest or imaginest in thy heart. Fear should never enter thy heart. When fear enters the heart of even a mighty person, he flees away to distant places.

MANTRA FIFTEEN

May the king (or president of the assembly) who like the sun is shining among all men of peaceful nature and horned creatures like the cattle, wielder of the thunderbolt and other weapons in his arms, king of the whole world, moving and unmoving, causing or controlling the movement of all, containing all as spokes within the felly, be our protector.

Source: The Holy Rigveda, Acharya Dharma Deva Vidya Martanda with notes by Maharshi Dayanand Saraswati

ashegan pillai
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#19317 - 09/09/00 05:26 AM Re: Indra and Vritra [Re: ashegan]
ashegan Offline
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from the rigvedadibhashya bhumika, dispelling the idea of the mythological demi-god indra fighting with the demon vritra..

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Of a similar nature (to these other puranic myths) is the story that the there was a real person Indra, the king of the devas. He had a fight with Vritrasura, the son of Tvashta. Vritrasura swallowed Indra which caused great fear to the devas. They sought out the protection of Vishnu who suggested a way out of the difficulty. He said that Vritrasura would be killed by his entering into the sea-foam. Good and learned men should regard these stories described in the so called Puranas, ancient in name only but really modern books, as false like the ravings of a maniac. In reality they are allegories.

I shall now describe the deeds of valor which Indra, the sun or God, who is the Vajri (thunderbolt-holder) wrought in days of yore. Vajra, according to the Shatapatha VII. 5, means light, pranas or valor. Vajri is the possessor or holder of vajra. he having killed the ahi (cloud), caused him to stretch on the earth, that is, caused the waters to spread. By these waters he caused the rivers to overflow and burst their banks. The rivers are produced by the clouds. The water which falls from the upper regions is like the lifeless corpse of Vritra. Rig I. 32. 1.

Hence forward we shall give the meaning of the verse in brief.

The sun killed the cloud. He killed it by launching upon it the vajra the bright lightning produced by his rays which were hidden behind the cloud. With the lightning he pounded the body of Vritra into atoms and felled it to the ground and having reduced the water which had fallen on the ground into atoms made it again ascend into the sky. The waters spread over the earth and began to flow towards the ocean as the cows run after their calves. The waters are the body of Vritrasura. 'The causing of the body of Vritra, viz. the waters, to fall on the ground is a praise-worthy act of the sun. Rig I. 32.2.
Indra, the sun, with his sharp and potent electrical rays cut the shoulders of the mighty Vritra, the rain-cloud, and killed him i.e. cause him to pour down rain and made him lie down on earth. Rig I.32.5

As a man, when his limbs are cut off with a sword, etc. falls to the ground so the rain-cloud with his shoulders, hands and feet cut off by Indra (the sun) with his vajra (electrical rays), falls down to the ground and lies there. ['In the Vedas the past tenses lung, lang and lit are used to denote the present tense "made to lie" - is used to denote the present tense].Rig I. 32. 7


According to the Nighantu, Vritra is the name is the name of the rain-cloud. Nighantu I. 10.
Indra (the sun) is the enemy (the destroyer) of the rain-cloud. The rain-cloud is the son, of Tvashta (the sun) because after the juices and waters are transformed into small particles and carried up into the air they again unite and take the form of a cloud which is called Asura.

The sun again destroys it and fells it to the ground (in the shape of rain). It enters the earth and causes the rivers to flow. In this way it goes to the ocean and again ascends intothe sky. Indra again removes it. The rain-cloud is called Vritra because it is agreeable to men, or because it hides the light of the sun or because it grows in size. Nirukta II.17


The watery body of Vritra casts a long shadow or produces a deep darkness, hence it is said that vritra is sleeping on the ground. Rig I.32. 10.
Vritra which can assume any form at will cannot hold Indra in check even with his thunder and lightning. A battle rages between Vritra and Indra. When Vritra gains an upper had he cuts off the light of the sun, when the forces (i.e. heat) of the sun prevail he puts Vritra to flight and conquers him. In the end victory remains with the sun and not with Vritra Rig !. 32. 13.

This Vritra sleeps covering the whole world. Hence he is called Vritra - the enveloper. Indra (the sun) killed Vritra (the rain-cloud). Having been killed he fell to the ground and there being mixed with vegetation produced a stench. When he was in the sky he fell all around in the shape of rain. After death he went down to the ocean and looked fearful. Hence the waters of the ocean inspire fear. In this way the waters of the rivers, seas and lands, through the sun, ascend into the sky and fall as rain, and grass, etc. is produced by rain. Shatapatha I.1. 3.5.


The air and the sun are the bright denizens of the intermediary space. The sun being luminous is the denizen of the bright firmament. Nirukta VII. 5.
There are many mantras in the Vedas bearing on this subject.

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ashegan pillai
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ashegan pillai

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#19318 - 09/09/00 05:34 AM Re: Indra and Vritra [Re: ashegan]
ashegan Offline
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i post here the adhyatmik or spiritual meaning of this sukt (rgved 1.32).. indra here is the soul (or lower self).. it is one of the 32 pada namas given in nighantu (V.4).. as indra is the glorious sun and vritra is the rain-bearing cloud, so is indra, on the spiritual plane, the soul (or in other instances the almighty) and vritra the cloud of ignorance and sin.. indra can indeed refer to the soul based on the etymology (nirukt 10.8.11) as one possessed of great power..

in the embodiment of five bhutas, where reside ten other rudras (prana, apana, vyana, udana etc) besides the soul, it is the soul which has the 'greatest power'.. the other rudras function beneath it, therefore soul is 'indra'.. based on this, our sense organs are called the 'indriyas', through which the soul experiences the world.. it has been used in this sense in other parts of ved also.. almighty god is refered to as 'indrasya yujyah sakhaa' - the worthy friend of the soul (rgved 1.22.19), and as 'indrasya kaamyam' - most longed for by the souls (yajurved 32.13)...

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1. May I acclaim the valourous deeds of the resplendent soul, which he has achieved: he has cloven the cloud of blind and dark impulses; and cast out evil thoughts; he has broken a way for the torrents of wisdom through obstacles.

2. He has sent asunder the cloud of blind impulses seeking refuge in the obstacles. The great architect has conquered with his all-encompassing bolt of will-power. The clouds of passions have been broken; the water of animated evil thoughts has rapidly rushed to the heart, like cows hastening to their calves.

3. The powerful soul accumulated his strength on three virtuous levels - physical, mental and spiritual. He sharpened his will-power and struck the first-born of evil impulses, the sexual one.

4. O powerful soul! Since you have subdued the foremost impulse, which is the prime generator of delusions, and thereby since you generated the light of wisdom to shine on the horizon of the mind, you have not left a sinful impulse to disturb you.

5. With his assailing will-power the powerful soul again strikes the wounded evil-mind, which still lies there prostrate, like trunks of trees felled by the axe.

6. The wounded, but arrogant, sinful mind again defies the mighty soul, who scatters and weakens the dark and blind impulses; but the animated sinful impulses again gather and break the barriers set by the soul.

7. Having done this damage, the evil mind, though without hand or foot, again assails the soul, who thereupon strikes the mind with his full force. Thereafter, the evil-spirited mind and other mutilated baser instincts are rendered inactive, like one who pretends virility but has none to attack.

8. Thoughts that delight the soul now flow over to the mind, the prostrated and wounded, as the waters of a river with her broken banks, flow over the fields. The mind, however, obstructs this flow.

9. The primary source of evil tendencies - the primary instincts - has been enveloping the mind like a cow covering its calf: the instincts rise above and the mind comes down underneath. The soul again strikes the source of these evil tendencies.

10. Then thoughts carry off the whirling mind, the body of the nameless, tossed into the midst of the never-stopping, never-resting currents, the foe of the soul - the mind imbued with evil instincts, as if slept over for a long dark night.

11. Good impulses, beloveds of the soul, are obstructed by greed, like cows stolen by wicked people, and kept hidden. But by strangling the strength of the demoniac forces, the soul sets open the cave that blocked the path of noble impulses to reach the soul.

12. When you, O powerful soul, unaided by any, return the blow, inflicted by the evil mind, you become furious like a horse's tail. You rescue good human impulses. O hero! You win our sweet devotion. You cause the spiritual elixer of seven oceans (love, truth, benevolence, austerity, contentment, generosity and knowledge) to flow freely over the soul.

13. Now, no lightning of the evil impulse, the thunder of sensuous thoughts, the rain of passions or sort of temptation can harm the victorious soul. The triumph of the soul in the contest has been full and final over the wicked impulses.

14. O soul! While this internal battle has been waged, you have been ready to destroy the evil instincts of a conscious and subconscious mind. You are hesitant for a moment, but you traverse all the ninety nine elements like a swift hawk.

15. Then, O soul, the wielder of spiritual power, you become the sovereign of what is movable and immovable, of impulses and emotions, hornless (peaceful) or horned (aggressive). Now you are a monarch of men. All activities are centred in you as the circumference comprehends the spokes of the wheel.

Source: Rgveda Samhita, Swami Satyaprakash Saraswati and Satyakam Vidyalankar
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ashegan pillai
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#19319 - 09/11/00 06:48 AM The Vajra [Re: ashegan]
ashegan Offline
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in some mantras, the almighty (indra) is described as 'vajrine' or the 'upholder of the vajra'.. western scholars imagining a deity sitting somewhere in heaven instead of the omnipresent supreme being, often termed the vajra a 'thunderbolt'..

but the fuller expression of this word is given in shatapatha brahmana (3.1.5.31) -
vajro nyaayaakhyo dando'syaastiiti tasmai vajro vai dandah II
this shows that vajra, in adhyatmik context, is the thunderbolt of justice ie. the irrefragable power of the almighty to mete his divine justice..

om mahaanindrah parashca nu mahitvamastu vajrine I
dyaurnaprathinaa shavah II

'supreme is the almighty god. true greatness and glory belongs to that upholder of the thunderbolt of justice.
wide as the heaven, or vast as the sun is his power'
-rgved 1.8.5


ashegan pillai
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ashegan pillai

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#19320 - 10/06/00 09:22 AM Re: The Vajra [Re: ashegan]
chiragm. Offline
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Registered: 08/26/00
Posts: 25
Dear Asheganbhaiya,

Pardon my ignorance or blindness but I do not why Indra is considered God in the analogies Panditji provided in his elucidation of the spiritual and physical meaning of the Indra mantras.Please set me straight if you think i have misunderstood the words or overemphasized the material aspect of mantras.


If the vedas worship oneALMIGHTY beyond comprehension AlMIGHTY GODthen why should he be in constant struggle against the dark forces of Vritra???


God is:

1. Unique.

2. ALMIGHTY.

3. In complete control.

4. Incomparable in might (NO force dares to even come close)

5. Forever the virtous victor in this universe, without struggle he is forever in bliss and victory beyond all time and space he rules supreme without opposition.

6. Unsurpassed in virtousity.

7. Incommensurable (it is to desecrate his holy Naam to even imply the slightest or remote possibility of an army being able to face him....... God is the destroyer of all evil ..... without struggle or even the slightest effort GOD destroys all wickedness)

8. Without fear.

9. God never fails.

10. He is perfect and Infinite in Love.

11. The sun is nothing compared to the lord's illumination.

12. The shining light of God span's the radiance and magnitude of billions of infinite supergiants of Suns and his might and omniscient presence permeates the entire universe and beyond forever and ever. The Sun is a mere molecule in the vast creation that is under his complete control.

13. The very word infinite can not truly allow one to conceptualize his merits ..... he is too powerful to even conceive of.

14. All forces bow to the feet of Mahadeva.

I agree that there are wars between good and bad in the mind and soul. But I do not believe God is in struggle against the dark forces or anyhting else for that matter. Ishwar is in total control and No thing dare opposes the Lord ..... No power can even come close to Ishwar's might.

Have a Nice day and

ISHWAR BHAGVAN KI JAI!!!



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#19321 - 10/06/00 10:36 AM Re: The Vajra [Re: chiragm.]
vinaire Offline
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Dear Chirag,

Your questions are quite astute. What you are looking here is the conflict inherent in the Dvaita viewpoint. The highest echelon of thoughts in Vedas (as quoted below from another thread) are more on the line of advaita.

O Men, that All Pervading being alone is the Lord of the Imperishable Prakriti the material cause of the world and of the soul and is yet distinct from both. He is the Creator of the Universe the past, the present and the future. ----Yajur Veda XXI, 2

Both God and Soul are eternal; they are alike in consciousness and such other attributes. They are associated together, God pervading the Soul and are mutual companions. The Prakriti, which is likened to the trunk of a tree whose branches are the multiform universe which is resolved into its elementary condition at the time of dissolution is also eternal. The natures, attributes and characters of these three are also eternal (before and beyond time). Of the two God (Brahman) and Soul (Atman) the latter alone reaps the fruits of this tree of the universe good or evil whilst the former does not. He is the All Glorious Being who shines within, without and all around. God, The Soul and The Prakriti, all these are distinct from one another being different in their natures, but they are all eternal. ----Rig Veda 1,164 20.

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Communication is the universal solvent.
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Communication is the universal solvent.

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#19322 - 10/06/00 10:53 AM Re: The Vajra [Re: vinaire]
shvu Offline
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Loc: Bangalore
In reply to:

The highest echelon of thoughts in Vedas are more on the line of advaita.



...the material cause of the world and of the soul and is yet distinct from both. - Yajur Veda

God, The Soul and The Prakriti, all these are distinct from one another being different in their natures, but they are
all eternal. - Rig Veda


This is the essence of the Dvaita Viewpoint.


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#19323 - 10/06/00 12:37 PM Re: The Vajra [Re: shvu]
vinaire Offline
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Posts: 4655
Loc: Florida, USA
Please see the explanation for that under VEDAS --> BRAHMAN

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Communication is the universal solvent.
_________________________
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Communication is the universal solvent.

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#19324 - 10/06/00 01:31 PM Re: The Vajra [Re: vinaire]
vaidix Offline
stranger

Registered: 10/02/00
Posts: 19
Friends

When we study Vedas, we have to forget our modern Hinduism to some extent. We must use Puranas as a guide, but we can not be totally ruled by Puranas.

Vedas have different concepts from Puranas and modern hinduism. For example Kama(desire) is a bad word in Hindusim, but in Veda, according to Brhadaranyaka upanishad, Kama means "desiring for a wife to produce children, and desiring for enough wealth to do yajnas, and desiring for Vedic knowledge". Veda says anything more than this is not Kama, but it is theft. When I told this Vedic teaching to a religious study circle, they were shocked, and looked at me like I was a Satan.

God is everything in Hindu sense. But in Veda the individual gods such as Indra, Vishnu, Rudra, Vayu, Brhaspati etc are not shown as all powerful gods who can do everything. They are some times "weak", for reasons we are yet to understand fully. Some times they quatrrel among themselves.

In my opinion, it is something like this: We don't feel energetic always. When we are hungry we feel dull, but after eating food we feel great. When we are dull we can not think properly, and make mistakes. When we are energetic, we think correctly and do good work. Veda is saying that the "god"s in our body may be strong or weak depending on situation.

So if we see in this light it is OK for Indra to be some times feeling weak or tired, or some times bargaining with Vayu for Soma, or some times feeling strong, etc. Vrtra has not been interpreted yet satisfactorily.

Lack of a satisfactory interpretation should not stop us from enquiry. Let us keep going without being "religiously enthusiastic" and without being "scientifically adament". We have to take a mid way between science and religion picking best from both approaches.

Hope we can do this.


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