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stefan
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wanderer
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I think that Aryan's Invasion to India begins from the ancient Aryana ( BACTRIA and BALKH , today's AFGHANISTAN )
Petar Dobrev: ORIGINS AND FIRST LAND OF THE BULGARIANS
For a very long time the oldest cradle of the Bulgarian tribe remained hidden for the scrutiny of science. Some looked for it in Altai and Mongolia, others, like D. Susulov, N. Stanishev, in Tarim, to the East of Pamir. There were others who looked to the North, in the Caucasus,and still others considered Bulgarians to be Europeans, akin to the Thracians. It is only in the last years that we found some guiding lights in thiscomplex mazeway of hypotheses. The most important one relates to the newly found inscriptions, written in the language of the Bulgarian rulers KUBRAT and ASPARUH. In their form those inscriptions remind very much of the East Pamir languages(Vakhan (Vahi), Ishkashim , Mundjan , Sarikoli and Darvaz), which is an indicating that the landof origin of the ancient Bulgarians was not Europe, neither was it Mongolia or Turkestan It was somewhere in PAMIR and HINDUKUSH . We get the same evidence from the peculiar words KAVHAN, TARKAN, ZHOPAN, ZERA, KALU, SETIT, and others, which can be found in the old Bulgarian inscription in Greek. Such concepts are unknown to the Mongols and the Turkic people, but they are well known to the people of Pamir. Anthropological research also shows that ancient Bulgarians have lived some time in the past in Pamir. In their physical appearance the old Bulgarians resembled very much the Pamir-Fergan racial type, that originated in the southern and the most civilized part of Central Asia. According to the oldest Armenian geography "the Bulgarians were among the 15 peoples "who inhabited once the land between Turkestan and the Areans in the foots of the mountain Imai" (Imeon is today Pamir and Hindukush).Since the name Turkestan was used before 6-7th century for the land beyond Sur-Darya, and the word "areans" was the name for the people in the Persian region of Area, this description indicates that the Bulgarians have lived at some period to the East of Persia and to the West of Sur-Darya - the mountains of Pamir and Hindukush. On the geographic map, appended to "Ashharatsuits", recently published by academician S. Eremyan, the name of the Bulgarians is located exactly at the point where the western ranges of the Imeon mountains meet it snorthern ranges - the Zervansh crest of Pamir. In the well known Latin anonymous Chronograph of 345, the name of the ancient Bulgarians is used as a replacement of the old Baktrinians, who inhabited the lands near the Pamir and the Hindukush. This is to show that for the compilers of this early historical source the Bulgarians were a part of the peoples inhabiting the region between Persia and Turkestan. Two more facts deserve attention. In the northern parts of the Pamir there was a state, called by the Sogdinians BLGAR, by the Arabs -BURGAR, and by the Tadziks - FALGAR. And to the West of the Pamir Indian sources (MAHABHARATA and the PURANAS) mention people of the name of BOLHI , BAHLIKA or BOLHIKI, ruled by the ancient king KARDAMA, and the Arab sources mention the ancient land of BALHARA. Some more details, suggested about a century ago by Prof. Vassil Zlatarski, are also of importance: round the mountain of Imeon there were, according to the Byzantine historian Agatius, the lands of the Kutrigurs, Utigurs and Vurugunds (presumably the Unogondurs). In the same region was situated the Onogur town of Bakat, according to Simokata. And lastly, the same region is the land of origin of the tribe of Kozagirs in whom Zlatarski, reasonably, sees the predecessors of the well known Bulgarian division "Kuchi-bulgar" like today's Afghan Kuchis. All scholarly evidence of the lands of origin of ancient Bulgarians focuses on one and the same geographic region - the Pamir and the Hindukush. Attempts to look for the oldest lands of the Bulgarians fareast - in Turkestan and Mongolia, where lived the tribes PU-KU and BAIEGU, mentioned in Chinese sources, or near the Mongolian river Tolaand the lake Balhash, have failed. For behind the Chinese words Pu-Kuand Baiegu are hidden the Kirgiz tribes BUGU and MAIIRKU, who have nothing in common with the ancient Bulgarians. The name Tola in the eastern Altai languages means deep-water river , and Balhash in Tuvinian means literally "swamp, moor". Fortunately there is a chronicle that has survived and it describes directly the land of origin of the Bulgarians in Europe. It was left by Mikhail the Syrian - Patriarch of Antiohia, called for his scholarly distinctionand erudition Mar Mikhail the Great. Here is what he says: "At those times there came from internal Skitia (Central Asia) three brothers,wholead with them 30 000 Skitians, and took the road of 60 days to the gorges of Imeon (Pamir and Hindukush) to the river Tanais (the Don),which flows into the lake of Meotida. Those people were named by the Romans Bulgars." This short description, discovered by Vassil Zlatarski, shows that the lands of ancient Bulgarians were in the valleys of the Pamir and the Hindukush. Starting from there, in about 60 days they reached the river Don and the Azov sea. If we start in the opposite direction from the Don to the east, we can easily confirm the correctness of this short story. For it is true that in about 60 days one can reach on foot from the Don to the northern foots of the Pamir, where the old lands of BALGAR were, called even today by the local Tadziks PALGAR. After almost two centuries of research and the endeavors of many scholars the sacred fatherland of the Bulgarians was discovered. This land, so dear to us, was situated in the foots of the Pamir and the Hindukush, where since ancient times existed the states of BALGAR and BALHARA.
Petar Dobrev: THE SECRETS OF OLD BULGARIAN RELIGION
Prior to Christianity Bulgarians had a different religion. We can learn about it from a direct historical source the dispute of Khan Omurtag with Cinamon of Byzantium.If you praise the Sun and the Moon [as gods] says Cinamon to Omurtag and make me wonder at their magnificence, and I do wonder, I still find them creations and servants not only to God but also to us, the human beings.To which Khan Omurtag answers: Do not abase our gods! Their power is great and you can judge about it from the fact that we, who pay homage to them, conquered the whole land of the Romans. (Cf. 1931, p. 256-259)
The Bulgars had the right to pay homage to their gods and to be proud of them. In an old manuscript we find the names of Bulgarian gods side by side with those of well-known ancient peoples. The author of this manuscript, unknown in Bulgaria until recently and kept in the greatest French and English libraries, is the famous Arab scholar El-Balhi (cir. 850). Here is what he says:It is interesting that all peoples have their own names for the Creator. The Arabs call Him Allah in the singular, and the other deities they call Illah; the Persians call Him Hormuz, Ized, Yazdan. In Zaratustra he is called Hormuz, but I have also heard the names Khod-Eht and Khod-Boreht, which means He-Himself. The Indians and the people of Sind (Pakistan) call him Shita Vabit and Mahadeva. The Turkic people say Bir Tengri*, which means,There is one God. The Christians of Syria say Laha Raba Kuadussa. The Jews say in their Jewish language: Elohim Adonai or Ehie Asher Ehie. Elohim means god in their language. I heard the Bulgarians call the Creator with the name Edfu and when I asked them how they call their idol, they answered Fa. I also asked the Copts what is their name for the Creator. They answered Ahad Shanak. (M. Tahir, Le livre de la creation de el-Balhi. Paris, 1899, v. IV, p. 56).
[*There is a peak in the Tien Shan mountains, named Khan-Tengri - 22,949 feet/6,995 m, - and it was long regarded as the highest peak of the Tien Shan system.]
Religious data offered by El-Balhi astound the reader with their precision and broadness. He gives the accurate names of God used by well-known peoples and also by some specific ethnic communities like the Sinds from Eastern Pakistan and the Copts, almost forgotten successors of the ancient Egyptians. It is then hardly possible that the scholar is wrong about the Bulgarians. What is more, his text contains the expression I heard the Bulgarians.., which indicates that he had the data directly from the Bulgarians. Judging by this text, our ancestors believed not only in the celestial bodies but also in a supreme God-Creator. As different from the Persians however, who called him Hormuz, and the Turkic people who called him Tengri, the Bulgarians used the strange and unknown word EDFU.
The two new sources discussed here broaden and enrich our notions of the religion of the old Bulgarians. So far scholars had only one real fact to rely on the name TANGRA, discovered in the form of TANGRAN by Prof. V. Beshevliev in an early Bulgarian inscription of the 9th c. It turns out that, like the Persians, who called God with three parallel names, the Bulgarians called him Tangra, but also Edfu a fact completely unknown to this day.
An interesting question arises: what are the regions in which the Creator was called with the two names of Tangra and Edfu? Something similar, as I was able to discover, existed in one single region of the East Pamir and Hindukush , where, according to historical sources, the Bulgarians lived before they migrated to Europe. The notion of TANDRA - lightening - is very popular there and is connected with the supreme God of thunder. Parallel to it a second name of God is also commonly used Hudo-ETH. Not very far from Pamir, in the Fergan valley, we still have the word FA idol, fetish, included in Assadis dictionary of modern Persian and referred to in the commentaries to El-Balhis works. The use of these notions in the region of Pamir is not accidental there was in these parts, following the Arab scholar Massudi, an enormous temple of the Sun, classified among the seven largest temples in the world. And the Sun itself, in its zenith, was called with names like Adhu and Edh, cognate with the Sanskrit notion Aditya (Sun), and especially the epithet EDDH burning, blazing.
Such data indicate that the roots of the religion of the Bulgarians can be found in the region of Pamir and Hidukush where they lived before moving to Europe. Two relics of this forgotten religion were discovered quite recently:
- a bronze rosette from Pliska, dedicated to the seven celestial bodies and marked by the typical Bulgar symbol IYI, and two stone slabs with the same symbol and
- drawings of the Sun and the Moon, found not far from the Bulgarska Morava river.
To the same religion we can attribute also three newly deciphered runic inscriptions from Murfatlar, two of which are dedicated to the Sun and Jupiter. The third one consists of the single word EFE, which could be a term of address to the god Edfu of the type EDFE or some parallel name of the same god. (Cf. P. Dobrev. Universum Protobulgaricum. New York, 1996).
Very interesting in this connection is the history of the religious cult of the seven celestial bodies. It appears for the first time in the Shumer-Accadian civilization where the names of the Sun, the Moon and the five planets, known to the Ancient world, are always accompanied by the word DINGIR god, akin to the Elam word TANRU. The Sun is called Dingir-UTU (Sun God) by the Shumerians, the Moon is called Dingir-sin (Moon God), etc. From this very part of the world the cult of the celestial bodies spread radially to the East and the West among the ancient peoples Assyrians, Indo-Iranians, Hittites, Celts, Romans, etc. Widely spread are also words like DINGIR and TANRU or the like: the Assyrian word TANRA heavenly body, the Indian TARA star, the Hittite TARA heavenly light, the Celtic TARAN god of thunder, the Anglo-Saxon THUNDER, the Pamir word TANDRA lightening, and the remotest cognate the Turkic word TENGRI (god of the bright blue sky).
Old Bulgarian religion, with its devotion to the seven celestial bodies and the Supreme God, called Tangra and Edfu, is part of this religious system. What is more, it does not represent the most simplified Turkic variant but the initial well developed system. This is not primitive Asiatic shamanism, as interpreted by some authors, but one of the oldest religions of humanity. It is high time to acknowledge this fact.
Regards,
Stefan
For more information :
http://www.kroraina.com/b_lang/index.html
Edited by stefan (08/13/04 09:06 AM)
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harerama
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wanderer
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Aryan Invasion is a MYTH, please stop propagating such lies.
Especially one which tends to advance YOUR country and people in esteem.
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stefan
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wanderer
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I am agree with you but..................
The Tocharians are vividly displayed in ancient wall paintings at Kizil and Kumtura (near the modern Chinese city K'u-ch'e, in the Tien Shan Mountains north of the Tarim Basin) as aristocratic Europeans, with red or blond hair parted neatly in the middle, long noses, blue or green eyes set in narrow faces, and tall bodies. The Yuezhi from the first century B.C. also are depicted in striking painted statues at Khalchayan (west of the Surkhan River in ancient Bactria). They too are shown to be Europeans with long noses, thin faces, blond hair, pink skin, and bright blue eyes. It is known from historical sources that during the second century B.C. the Greater Yuezhi moved from northwest China to Ferghana and Bactria, which lie on the far side of the Pamirs. From there they moved south across the Hindu Kush into Afghanistan and the northern part of the Indian subcontinent, where they founded the mighty Kushan empire. The latter, in turn, extended its power back into the Tarim Basin and with it spread Buddhism, which eventually reached China.
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stefan
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The name Afghanistan came into vogue during the rule of Ahmed Shah Durrani (1747-1773 AD). Prior to that Afghanistan was referred to as Aryana, Aryanam Viju, Pakhtiya, Khurasan and Pashtoonkhwah. The Parsi religious leader Zarathrushta in his work Zendavesta calls this region Aeseen Vijo or Aryanum Vijo meaning the land of the Aryans. The Rig Veda and the Zendavesta are believed to be the oldest texts in the world. Many European scholars believe that both the texts were composed in Afghanistan. Zarathrushta, the composer of Avesta was born in north Afghanistan near Balkh, where he preached the Zorastrian religion which was the national religion of Iran for almost one thousand years. Not only is the language of the Vedas and that of the Avesta similar, but also the names of their gods like Mitra, Indra, Varun are the same. The description of battles between the gods and the demons are found in both the texts. There are so many references made to Afghanistan in the Chhandogya Upanishad, Markandey Puran and other Vedic and Buddhist literature. According to famous Afghan historians Mohammed Ali and Prof. Pajhvak, the Rigveda was composed in the ancient homeland of the Aryans, Afghanistan. The language of the ancient Afghans was Brahmui which is very similar to the language of the Vedas. References of the Pakhtoon people and the Afghan rivers are found in the Rigveda. The rivers which are today known as Aamu, Kabul, Kurram, Ranga, Gomal and Harirudh were known to the ancient Indians as Vakshu, Kubha, Krum, Rasaa, Gomati, Haryu respectively. The places which are now called Kabul, Kandhar, Balkh, Wakhan, Bagram, Pameer, Badkhasha, Peshawar, Swat and Charsadda are referred to in Sanskrit and Pali literature as Kuhka, Gandhar, Bahlik, Vokkan, Kapisha, Meru, Kamboj, Purushpur, Suvastu and Pushkalavati respectively. Gandhari, the devoted wife of King Dhritrashtra of Hastinapur (now Delhi), Panini, the great Sanskrit grammarian and Guru Gorakhnath were all Pathans. Takshshila, which is believed to be the first university in the world was established in 600 BC.
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Stefan: Your posting was very interesting. I lived in Kabul for 2 years and found that Dari (a dialect of Persian) had a lot of common words with Sanskrit. There is a small Sikh community in Kabul, most of whom speak only Dari. I just finished reading Alaine Daniloue (spelling may not be correct!)'s A Brief History of India. I am inclined to think that the anicient Dravidian and Munda civiliation that was spread all over India travelled westwards. Alaine talks about Mecca being Makeshwar, where a Shiv Linga was being worshipped.
In ancient times, Afghanistan was part of larger India. We know that Kanishka ruled from Ghandar. Alaine also talks about Sanskrit evolving from ancient languages prevalent in India. Ithihasas and puranas were translated from these languages into Sanskrit.
I speak Tamil (a Dravidian language) but love both Tamil and Sanskrit. Tamil does not have alphabets for some sounds that Sanskrit has. I am guessing that Tamil pre-dated Sanskrit, which appears to be language that was consciously created. Sanskrit has links with Latin and other European languages. Perhaps this is where the Aryan influence is coming from?
My basic question: Vedic civilization was not reached in a few years. It must have taken thousands of years to get to that stage. There is a much better chance of native people of India to have reached the vedic culture than the Aryans who inhabited harsh lands and were always ravaged by wars. India was much safer than other lands, being protected by Hindukush and Himalayan mountains.
Did vedic Indians go west and spread the civilization or the Aryans invaded and gave us the vedic civilation? The latter seems difficult to comprehend. Perhaps it helped British and German scholars to conclude that way!
Or this Aryan invasion is a total myth to support the 'master race' concept of the colonial powers?
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Afghanistan was originally called "Upa Gana Sthan(am)" meaning the land of the allied tribes(of greater Bharat Varsha).
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stefan
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wanderer
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According to Bunsen the Aryans first settled on the Oxus (AMU DARYA in BACTRIA)around 4000 B.C. They called this river the Sarasvati and here Vedic culture developed. Around this time agriculture begins, allowing the population to move from the foothills into oases along the rivers that flow into the Central Asian desert. The new settlements include large fortified buildings.
Seen in isolation, the Rigveda is undateable. However, by placing it in the context of external evidence some useful time brackets can be assigned. The reference to copper, harnessing of domesticated horse for transport and draft, and use of wheeled-vehicles show that the oral tradition of the Rigveda is from around 4000-3000 BC.
The Sarasvati in the Rig-Veda is described in superlatives. It is called 'naditama, the best of the rivers' (Rv 2,41.16), which surpasses 'in majesty and might all other rivers' (Rv 7.95.2). It is 'fierce' (Rv 6.62.7), and 'swifter than the other rapid streams' (Rv 6.61.13). It 'comes onward with tempestuous roar' (Rv 6.61.8) 'bursting the ridges of the hills with its strong waves' (Rv 6.61.2). Sarasvati springs from a 'three-fold source' (Rv 6.61.12) in the mountains (Rv 7.95.2), and finally ends in a samudra (literally 'the gatherer of the waters' or sea) (Rv 7.95.2). It is a long river because many kings live on its banks (Rv 8.21.18) and the five tribes (Rv 6.61.12) derive their prosperity from it. It also has a number of tributaries; it is 'sindhu-mata, the mother of rivers (Rv 7.36.6). It swells with rivers (Rv 6.52.6), said to be seven in number (Rv 6.61.12), Sarasvati being the seventh (Rv 7.36.6). Two rivers, Drishadvati and Apaya, are explicitly named in (Rv 3.23.4) in conjunction with Sarasvati. In addition, it is called 'sapta-svasa', 'with seven sisters' (Rv 6.61.10). Another verse (Rv 8.54.4) speaks of Sarasvati and seven rivers (Sapta-sindhavah). These must be the 'seven mighty rivers' that 'seek the seas' (Rv 1.71.7).
The devi Sarasvati is always seen with a peacock or a swan. She appears in the Rig Veda as the deity of speech and is worshipped with a chanting of the Devi Sukta from the Rig Veda. In the Vedas, Saraswati is also described as a river goddess associated with the element of water. She is the deity of fluidity and therefore of muses and oratory.
The name Sarasvati was later corrupted by the Persians (one of the tribes formed in the first millenium BC) to Harahvaiti and later to Harut.
The 2 rivers Sarasvati (Oxus) and Drishadvati (Jaxartes) represent Ikshvaku. Mr. Gangaram writes:” The Aryan civilisation was centered around the Sarasvati and Drishadavati rivers. We know that the goddes Sarasvati is also called Vaks (speech) and that the Sarasvati (daugher of the lake, sea) river is called Va(m)ksu in the Mahabharata. The Greek word Oxus is a corruption of Vaksu. The other river Jaxartes (Caks-sar(i)tes means eye-river) is. Drishadvati which means daugher of the eye (or stone). (Drish means: to see). The one river signifies sight while the other signifies speech. There is a relationship with Iksh-vaku (sight-speech), the well-known sage. Iksh-vaku is the great grandson of sage Kashyapa. The 2 rivers represent Iksh-vaku (see-speak), while Kashyapa is the Caspian sea, which in Vedic times was called Kasyapa Mira. Scientists have shown that the 2 rivers used to flow in the Caspian sea, before they changed their course and emptied in the Aral sea. This could be the cause of the southward movement of the Aryans. The Vedic river Raha ro Rasa is identified with the Volga river, which in old slavonic languages is called Rasa, from which Russia derives its name”.).
The Aryans called their country Arya-varta or shortly varta. Later on varta was corrupted to varat, barat which in modern times is mistaken for Bharat a character from the Mahabharata.
Bunsen however states that around 4000BC or earlier the Ayans were living on the Oxus or Sarasvati banks, around 3000 BC they were in Bactria and they reached the Indus around 2000 BC and in 1000 BC they reached Ceylon (Vambery, Bunsen, iii. 584,586), but some scolars object to this and state that the Aryans were much earler in the Indus/Ganga region).
From the Oxus river the Aryans reached the Tarim Basin around 3000 BC. Recently Aryan Nordic type mummies from around 2000 BC have been found in his ormer part of Aryavarta.
Edited by stefan (03/31/05 07:56 AM)
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openSky
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initiate
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I think there are just too many errors in these theories ...To name a few:
Bharat: was a great king and the country is named after him.
Arya in vedic culture and literature is rather an attribute of human nature and not a race or tribe. The scholarships that don't grasp that are either too lazy (and dull witted) or just plain dishonest.
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stefan
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wanderer
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This information I'm reading now from WEB-SITE:
http://www.encyclopediaindica.com/ --> ARYANS
History of Aryans in India
Clash of cultures
Mixed with original White Aryans, the Indus civilization was probably already in existence by the time the Aryans invaded. The invading Aryans were however more advanced and referred to the conquered Indians as "Dasyu". The Aryans who conquered these cities became its new inhabitants. (Compare the New World cities conquered by the Spanish). Indo-Aryan poetry (the Vedas) are full of stories of war against the Dasyu.
According to the Rig Veda , the leader of the Aryan invasion was Indra:"Thou, Indra, art the destroyer of all the cities, the slayer of the Dasyus, the prosperer of man, the lord of the sky." - RgV. VIII 87.6 . "Indra, the slayer of Vrittra, the destroyer of cities, has scattered the Dasyu sprang from a black womb." RgV. II 20.6 . It praises the god who "destroyed the Dasyans and protected the Aryan colour." - Rg.V. III 34.9. It then goes on to thank the god who "bestowed on his white friends the fields, bestowed the sun, bestowed the waters." - Rg.V. I 100.18
Rg.V. I 130.8 tells us :"Indra protected in battle the Aryan worshipper, he subdued the lawless for Manu, he conquered the black skin."
Indra - 5.29.10 - "One car-wheel of the Sun thou rolledst forward, and one thou settest free to move for Kutsa. Thou slewest noseless Dasyus with thy weapon, and in their home o'erthrewest hostile speakers." (noseless denoting the flatnosed aboriginals).
Indra - 10.23.4 - "With him too is this rain of his that comes like herds: Indra throws drops of moisture on his yellow beard. When the sweet juice is shed he seeks the pleasant place, and stirs the worshipper as wind disturbs the wood."
Indra - 10.96.8 - "At the swift draught the Soma-drinker waxed in might, the Iron One with yellow beard and yellow hair. He, Lord of Tawny Coursers, Lord of fleet-foot Mares, will bear his Bay Steeds safely over all distress." Notice that The Aryans are described as yellow haired (blond).
Indra - 1.9.3 - "O Lord of all men, fair of cheek, rejoice thee in the gladdening lauds, Present at these drink-offerings."
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openSky
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These links (http://www.encyclopediaindica.com/) are not authority on scripturs. And a lot of foreigners get 'lost' in translation or prejudiced research. It is suggested in Hindu tradition that one should learn Sanskrit and meaning of these vedic verses from practicing gurus alone.
Also, right pronounceation (phonetics) is crucial for understanding of these verses, as these mistakes are the first signs of distortions. All the twisted conclusions then follow.
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